Just can't set up this bass! Advice needed

[Evil Undead]

I'm having trouble setting up this bass. I've done quite a lot of set ups so am fairly experienced but this one has me beat.

The action is just too high, but lowering the bridge saddles even a minute amount causes the strings to flatten out over frets 12-24 - not just choking I mean if you fret a note above fret 12 the string just sits flat over all of the frets! When not fretting any notes, the action still looks a bit high.

The truss rod won't move so I don't want to force it.

As I know I also need the nut lowered a little (and the previous owner has used the strongest glue ever to stick the nut down), should I just bite the bullet and take it to a pro?

Only trouble is, a full setup, nut adjustment and fret dress runs at almost $180 in these parts and takes a week

[otherclef]

let me ask the obvious - whats your relief looking like?? You gotta see some relief before you can tackle the other things.

[Marton]

If the bass have a neck shim, it could be a good idea to remove it.

[Vincent P]

Originally Posted by otherclef

let me ask the obvious - whats your relief looking like?? You gotta see some relief before you can tackle the other things.

You may need to play with the truss rod, so I would look at getting this to move. If it really is that stuck, then see what a good tech/luthier would recommend you do.

[Evil Undead]

Originally Posted by otherclef

let me ask the obvious - whats your relief looking like?? You gotta see some relief before you can tackle the other things.

Thank you for both of your replies

The neck is almost flat but with the tiniest amount of relief. That was my first thought but it seems to be about the same as my other basses.

Originally Posted by Marton

If the bass have a neck shim, it could be a good idea to remove it.

It's NT so there's no shim involved.

[Skitch it!]

If you sight the neck is there a 'step' in the shape of the neck around the body join area? This is a common problem with some vintage Yamaha acoustic guitars with a set neck. Where the neck joins/runs through the body, it has stepped out of shape so the last run of frets is noticeably 'stepped' up, choking out if you try to set a lower action. The fix for it is re-setting the neck, awkward, expensive, usually not pursued because of that.

It may not be, could be a truss rod problem but by the sounds of it to me, sounds like the neck has stepped?

[darius8]

Loosen the strings and let the neck free of string tension and let it sit for a day. This will let you see if the neck will back-bow from the truss rod. If it doesn't back-bow that much, the truss rod isn't tightened all the way, it should be easier to loosen (or tighten) without the xtra tension. Try it, what do you got to lose?

The next step might involve a 2x4 and a C-clamp..

[Zooberwerx]

You need to address the frozen truss rod before pursuing any other corrective action. Once resolved, I would strongly suggest performing a set-up utilizing the more commonly embraced standards (relief .012-.014", string height 3/32"-1/16") just to see if the instrument is remotely playable. This may not be to your liking but it provides a realistic starting point.

Riis

[Evil Undead]

Originally Posted by Skitch it!

If you sight the neck is there a 'step' in the shape of the neck around the body join area? This is a common problem with some vintage Yamaha acoustic guitars with a set neck. Where the neck joins/runs through the body, it has stepped out of shape so the last run of frets is noticeably 'stepped' up, choking out if you try to set a lower action. The fix for it is re-setting the neck, awkward, expensive, usually not pursued because of that.

It may not be, could be a truss rod problem but by the sounds of it to me, sounds like the neck has stepped?

I can't see any step in the neck at all...

[JayfromDeeKay]

Have you checked that the problem isn't caused by the strings touching the pickups or pickup poles? If so, lower the pickups.

That's probably not it, but it's worth a try.

[Skitch it!]

From what you describe there does appear to be something up with either the angle or shape of that neck. How is the relief? Fret the first fret on the E string and the last fret with your right hand, at the middle of the string how much gap do you have from the top of the fret/s to the underside edge of the string?

The nut, I would probably do in situ on the bass, measuring how many mm you wish to deepen the slot from the bottom of the existing slot and marking (pencil?) it on each. Then a nut file or circular file with the same radius as the slot, filing carefully down to the mark. I've never had to do that but that's the way I would approach it, but certainly not too deep at first.

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

I can't see any step in the neck at all...

It's there. Run a straightedge over it and it will be obvious. Time for fretwork(and maybe even a fingerboard planing), I'm afraid.

[darius8]

Are the bridge saddles all the way down, half way or as high as it will go?

[walterw]

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

The neck is almost flat but with the tiniest amount of relief. That was my first thought but it seems to be about the same as my other basses.

this is key!

how "flat" is it, really?

if you capo the first fret and hold down the last fret, what thickness feeler gauge will just fit between the 8th fret and the string without pushing the string up?

also, how much higher is the action at the first fret on the open strings than it is at the second if you capo'd the first fret?

[darius8]

walterw is asking you give numbers becuz words like "enough, flat, some, low" are subjective terms. One person's "low" might be too high for another. We want to help, it's obvious isn't it?

Re-thinking this:

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

The action is just too high, but lowering the bridge saddles even a minute amount causes the strings to flatten out over frets 12-24 - not just choking I mean if you fret a note above fret 12 the string just sits flat over all of the frets! (

Actions too high but slightly lowering the saddles causes the strings to flatline from the 12th - 24th? That almost impossible.

Originally Posted by Evil Undead

When not fretting any notes, the action still looks a bit high.
(

How high is it? Measure it at the 7th fret, 12th fret and 20th while the strings are tuned to pitch. Also, where are bridge saddles: down, half way, or as high as can be.

[Evil Undead]

Originally Posted by darius8

walterw is asking you give numbers becuz words like "enough, flat, some, low" are subjective terms. One person's "low" might be too high for another. We want to help, it's obvious isn't it?

Re-thinking this:

Actions too high but slightly lowering the saddles causes the strings to flatline from the 12th - 24th? That almost impossible.

How high is it? Measure it at the 7th fret, 12th fret and 20th while the strings are tuned to pitch. Also, where are bridge saddles: down, half way, or as high as can be.

Unfortunately I don't have feeler gauges so I can't provide accurate numbers. They might be useful though - where would I get hold of some and what am I looking for?

You are right though, it's all subjective. What I should have said is, the action is too high for me. Just a touch, but noticeable. Measuring with a steel ruler it's at about 3/16" and I prefer 1/16".

The bridge saddles aren't bottomed out or right up. Somewhere around middle.

[darius8]

Hmmm....3/16" is about 5mm, which fret is this measured from?

May I ask what bass is this? Without being able to adjust the truss rod the option is to raise the saddles to playable levels.

[walterw]

yeah, 3/16" from what to what?

[fhm555]

Not saying you should try this, but I watched a fender tech do it once at a setup clinic at a local music store. It was one of those buy a set of strings, get a free setup from a genuine fender tech promotion things.

A guy with a tele that looked like it was used to chop wood was in line ahead of me and when he handed it over to the tech, the guy slapped on new strings, sighted down the neck, fiddled with the truss rod adjustment, then sighted down the neck again. He then put the back of the neck against his knee about midways and proceeded to pull on it until there was an audible cracking sound. He fiddled with the truss rod adjustment and sighted down the neck a couple more times, did a few more adjustments, tuned it up and handed it back to the owner, telling him the truss rod was now unstuck.

[Evil Undead]

Originally Posted by walterw

yeah, 3/16" from what to what?

From the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the E string.