Just Tried the Toothpick Repair...

silversport · #1 02-09-2008, 10:41 AM

Just tried the toothpick repair (minus the glue) for a strap lock screw that was stripped on my LB70A...just one seemed like enough to get a bite and it seems nice and tight...at least THAT went well for me today...

Thanks,
Bill

SoLongJake · #2 02-09-2008, 10:42 AM

You NEED to use glue. If you don't glue it, there is a very strong chance it will slip out.

StoutXXX · #3 02-09-2008, 10:46 AM

for real. There's a REASON why you use glue.

fenderhutz · #4 02-09-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoLongJake

You NEED to use glue. If you don't glue it, there is a very strong chance it will slip out.

+1

Even Elmers Glue if you don't have wood glue available.

silversport · #5 02-09-2008, 10:59 AM

Ok...but using the search function gave me as many for as against using wood glue...easy enough to fix though...thanks for the heads up...mine wasn't totally stripped...just wouldn't snug down tight...
Bill

SoLongJake · #6 02-09-2008, 11:03 AM

If your idea of fun is having your bass plummet to the floor at a gig due to a failing straplock, by all means, have at it.

BigBassBob · #7 02-09-2008, 11:07 AM

I dunno about having to use glue.

I did the toothpick trick years ago on one of my basses and I was told to just put a few bits of toothpick/cocktail stick in and screw the button back in. Didn't use glue and that same button has held up for 4 years.

202dy · #8 02-09-2008, 01:33 PM

To glue or not to glue, that is the argument.

Well, some folks get lucky. Sometimes they get lucky for a long time. If the filler is not glued in and it stays in for a long period of time odds are that there is some micro splitting of the wood around the hole. It might not be visible but it is probably happening. In exteme cases there will be cracks that show through the fininsh or may even crack the body and open up a small fissure in the horn surrounding the hole.

Glue is used to fix splints and fillers in place. This has been the accepted practice in woodworking for the last five hundred or so years. Once the hole is filled the glue is allowed to cure for twenty four hours and then is bored to the proper dimension to accept the screw. This is one of the ways that a luthier or tech approaches this repair. Elmers Glue-All, the white stuff, is a polyvinyl resin glue. That means that it is wood glue.

Lesfunk · #9 02-09-2008, 01:37 PM

I recommend taking the screw out and hardening the threaded screw holes with Thin CA.
Let it soak in and dry for a few minutes then screw the button back on

202dy · #10 02-09-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lesfunk

I recommend taking the screw out and hardening the threaded screw holes with Thin CA.
Let it soak in and dry for a few minutes then screw the button back on

Another good method to remedy the problem. Sometimes it will take several applications of CA glue before the screw threads have good purchase against the interior threads. Reverse the screw until the beginning of the screw threads find the begining of the threads in the hole so as not to damage the interior threads. When it clicks into place reverse direction again and install the screw.

guy n. cognito · #11 02-09-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

To glue or not to glue, that is the argument.

Well, some folks get lucky. Sometimes they get lucky for a long time. If the filler is not glued in and it stays in for a long period of time odds are that there is some micro splitting of the wood around the hole. It might not be visible but it is probably happening. In exteme cases there will be cracks that show through the fininsh or may even crack the body and open up a small fissure in the horn surrounding the hole.

Glue is used to fix splints and fillers in place. This has been the accepted practice in woodworking for the last five hundred or so years. Once the hole is filled the glue is allowed to cure for twenty four hours and then is bored to the proper dimension to accept the screw. This is one of the ways that a luthier or tech approaches this repair. Elmers Glue-All, the white stuff, is a polyvinyl resin glue. That means that it is wood glue.

Insert toothpicks with glue, reinsert screw. End of story. No waiting and reboring needed.

McHaven · #12 02-09-2008, 01:51 PM

I just used super glue when I had to fix the pin on my jazz bass. Hasn't moved since. Only downside, some glue ran out of the hole and hardened on the body. I haven't taken care of it yet

202dy · #13 02-09-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Insert toothpicks with glue, reinsert screw. End of story. No waiting and reboring needed.

Reboring the hole is the accepted method to making a precise fit between screw and hole. Too much material in the hole can cause a problem later, as per the guys who do the same thing without glue. The wait is the same because the glue still requires the same amount of time to cure. If there is a hurry default to super glue.

guy n. cognito · #14 02-09-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

Reboring the hole is the accepted method to making a precise fit between screw and hole. Too much material in the hole can cause a problem later, as per the guys who do the same thing without glue. The wait is the same because the glue still requires the same amount of time to cure. If there is a hurry default to super glue.

Accepted by who? I've used my method on instruments for 20 years and have never had a screw pull lose or suffered any other problems from "too much material."

If I were being paid to fix a client's instrument, then I would completely fill / rebore for a more professional APPEARANCE, but nothing more.

dbcandle · #15 02-09-2008, 02:24 PM

I'm no luthier or tech, but on my basses (mid to low end), I like to remove the screw, take a nail covered in epoxy, and wipe the walls of the screw hole with epoxy. Works great for me.

Note: Obviously, you don't want to fill the hole - just get glue on the stripped-out screw threads...

202dy · #16 02-09-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Accepted by who? I've used my method on instruments for 20 years and have never had a screw pull lose or suffered any other problems from "too much material."

If I were being paid to fix a client's instrument, then I would completely fill / rebore for a more professional APPEARANCE, but nothing more.

Calm down, Guy.

It is accepted woodworking practice. It has been taught this way in shops in the western world for five hundred years or more. (They used hide glue back then.) You will also see that this method is included in virtually every book on the subject of luthiery and guitar repair, as well as guides to woodworking and furniture repair.

guy n. cognito · #17 02-09-2008, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

Calm down, Guy.

It is accepted woodworking practice. It has been taught this way in shops in the western world for five hundred years or more. (They used hide glue back then.) You will also see that this method is included in virtually every book on the subject of luthiery and guitar repair, as well as guides to woodworking and furniture repair.

I'm perfectly calm, 202dy. I'm also perfectly aware of what's included in the books, but the glue and toothpick method has worked for countless numbers of us over the years, and shouldn't be ignored as a legitimate method of repairing a lose screw without whipping out the titebond and drill.

As I said above, I wouldn't use toothpicks if being paid for the job, but I'm more than content with the practice for my personal instruments. I did it to my first bass over 15 years ago, and the screw in that bass hasn't been moved since. It's currently being used by a 12 year old who jumps around like David Lee Roth, yet the screw still holds. Isn't it amazing that a little home spun and common sense can compare with 500 years of history and books?

202dy · #18 02-09-2008, 03:12 PM

Having read your posts on TB before this you have appeared to be a reasonable and well informed poster. You've obviously read the books and already know it is not a legitimate woodworking repair. So on this count we are on the same side.

The fact that something works doesn't mean that it is a good idea. As a matter of fact, this type of "jury rigging" is exactly why people are complain about the lack of craftsmanship today. On this particular repair, the time differential is less than five minutes, the time it takes to select the proper bit, chuck it up, bore the hole, and put everything back. So there really isn't much of a time savings.

The only thing I don't understand is why someone would perform a top drawer repair for a stranger but is willing to accept a repair that is less than optimal on their own instrument?

Pilgrim · #19 02-09-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

Even Elmers Glue if you don't have wood glue available.

Elmer's white glue is a perfectly serviceable wood glue.

And reboring and plugging the hole may be accepted practice for luthiers, but for Joe Bass owner, IMO the toothpick with glue repair has much less potential for causing damage due to mis-use of tools, and it works just fine. For the average guy, I'd recommend the toothpick repair as being MUCH more practical than pulling out a drill and dowel and going after the hole.

PhatBasstard · #20 02-10-2008, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silversport

Just tried the toothpick repair (minus the glue) for a strap lock.....

My guitarist, who is also a well repected guitar and amp tech here (as well as to some major artists), calls these "Precision Micro Dowels" on his repair tickets.

I know I've used this method, without the glue, on at least a hundred stripped holes over my 30 year (so far) pro career and don't recall ever having one strip back out.

Although, I must admit, the reasons stated for using glue seem sound. I just haven't needed it (neither has my guitarist).

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

The fact that something works doesn't mean that it is a good idea.

Must be a Republican.