Loose tuner bushing on graphite neck

[eutgard]

I'm using Moses graphite neck.

Problem is, my Grover tuner bushings constantly pull out.

How can I fix this?

Some Tberss recommend wooden toothpick solution, but i can't be sure it will owrk with graphite.

[Hambone]

Here's a good repair for that. Mix up some black epoxy for spreading around the inside of the tuner hole. Then reseat your bushing. The epoxy is a very close match for the resin Moses uses in the casting of the necks. All you are doing is building up the sides and getting it into the knurling on the bushing. You could use a 5 minute black epoxy but something slower curing would be my choice. As far as getting the tuner out later, don't worry. The epoxy won't stick permanently to the plating and you'll be able to push them out from the back.

[eutgard]

Thank you Mr. Hambone!

I've thought about epoxy myself previously, but I was afraid it would stick to bushing and made it impossible to remove bushing later.

It is great honor to be in same forum with you.

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by Hambone

Here's a good repair for that. Mix up some black epoxy for spreading around the inside of the tuner hole. Then reseat your bushing. The epoxy is a very close match for the resin Moses uses in the casting of the necks. All you are doing is building up the sides and getting it into the knurling on the bushing. You could use a 5 minute black epoxy but something slower curing would be my choice. As far as getting the tuner out later, don't worry. The epoxy won't stick permanently to the plating and you'll be able to push them out from the back.

I'm really amazed that the epoxy does't practically weld the bushing in the hole.

You know me well enough to know that I'm not trying to be a smart***, but I have to ask: have you actually repaired a loose bushing using epoxy and been able to remove the bushing after the epoxy went off?

If, in fact , the bushing remains removable, your method is better than mine, which consists of a single drop of carpenters glue applied at the hidden end of the bushing after it's in the hole. One sharp rap with the right size drift and it'll pop right out. Same as sticking a nut down while still allowing easy removal.

One or two turns of scotch tape around the bushing will make it tight enough to require juat a little pressure when seating the bushing in the hole but it comes out with very little force and wont move in the hole.

[emils]

You could always build it up with epoxy, let it cure and then push the bushing in. This way it definitely won't stick to it and the bushing will come out easy if it needs to.

[reddogbass]

It may, or may not stick to the bushing. You just never know the condition of the plating, and whether it will stick. After all, golf club heads are held onto chrome shafts using epoxy. However the chrome is abraded, but not removed.

So what if it does stick? Simply heat the bushing with a soldering iron, and the epoxy will soften and you can punch it out. 250 degrees is required, but that easily obtained.

[Hambone]

Originally Posted by pkr2

I'm really amazed that the epoxy does't practically weld the bushing in the hole.

You know me well enough to know that I'm not trying to be a smart***, but I have to ask: have you actually repaired a loose bushing using epoxy and been able to remove the bushing after the epoxy went off?

If, in fact , the bushing remains removable, your method is better than mine, which consists of a single drop of carpenters glue applied at the hidden end of the bushing after it's in the hole. One sharp rap with the right size drift and it'll pop right out. Same as sticking a nut down while still allowing easy removal.

One or two turns of scotch tape around the bushing will make it tight enough to require juat a little pressure when seating the bushing in the hole but it comes out with very little force and wont move in the hole.

Harold, Yep I've done this particular repair and I've also done other epoxy type things using this same principle. Reddog has pointed out the only possible flaw in this process but I was assuming the bushings were new. Epoxy simply won't stick to smooth surfaces. A bond will have some shear strength but literally no tension strength. There isn't anything chemical in it's bond properties - it doesn't react with the substrates. Epoxy relies on a mechanical bond with the substrates to grip. I've never had problems removing a plated bushing from epoxy but it might be because of the handling the bushing got during the whole process. Skin oils might very well have acted as a "mold release" and allowed the metal part to seperate from the built up epoxy.

One night while I was goofing around with some leftover epoxy putty, I made a clamshell mold and "cast" a Gotoh tuner knob with the epoxy. The mold was made by flattening out a glob of putty and pushing the tuner top into it to about half it's depth. Then I let it cure and put another glob on top with a little wd-40 to assure seperation. What I got was a perfect casting of the knob that I pushed full of other putty and made a perfect replica of the knob. It sits on my monitor at work right now.

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by Hambone

Harold, Yep I've done this particular repair and I've also done other epoxy type things using this same principle. Reddog has pointed out the only possible flaw in this process but I was assuming the bushings were new. Epoxy simply won't stick to smooth surfaces. A bond will have some shear strength but literally no tension strength. There isn't anything chemical in it's bond properties - it doesn't react with the substrates. Epoxy relies on a mechanical bond with the substrates to grip. I've never had problems removing a plated bushing from epoxy but it might be because of the handling the bushing got during the whole process. Skin oils might very well have acted as a "mold release" and allowed the metal part to seperate from the built up epoxy.

One night while I was goofing around with some leftover epoxy putty, I made a clamshell mold and "cast" a Gotoh tuner knob with the epoxy. The mold was made by flattening out a glob of putty and pushing the tuner top into it to about half it's depth. Then I let it cure and put another glob on top with a little wd-40 to assure seperation. What I got was a perfect casting of the knob that I pushed full of other putty and made a perfect replica of the knob. It sits on my monitor at work right now.

You never cease to amaze me! LOL Who woulda thunk it?

By the way, I checked out your website the other day. Looking good.

[Hambone]

Thanx! There's so much I want to do but there's little enough time to make myself "well" enough to even want to.

Your idea of white glue is actually a perfect one for fixing this problem in a wood neck. That glue will attach itself to the raw wood sides of the hole and stay forever. For the graphite neck, wood glue shouldn't stick very well. While that might help with the "fit", it might just spin in the hole. I dunno.

Excellent point about using a drift for removal of tuner bushings. For the uninitiated, a "drift" is usually some sort of hard material used between a hammer and the object being removed. Soft metals are preferred because they dont ding harder metals. But I've got a solution for a perfect drift that just about everyone has in the toolbox - a socket from a ratchet wrench set. While the exact dimension escapes me right now, there are several that are perfect fits for the various tuner bushing holes. Just put the socket behind the bushing and give it a rap with a hammer. Be sure to watch which direction the bushing flies off the headstock. Keep looking, it's down there somewhere!

[202dy]

Originally Posted by Hambone

I've got a solution for a perfect drift that just about everyone has in the toolbox - a socket from a ratchet wrench set. While the exact dimension escapes me right now, there are several that are perfect fits for the various tuner bushing holes. Just put the socket behind the bushing and give it a rap with a hammer. Be sure to watch which direction the bushing flies off the headstock. Keep looking, it's down there somewhere!

Using sockets is a works like a charm. Flying bushings and other such parts are frustrating. For more control try using an F style clamp. Place the movable end against the socket and support the fixed end on a couple of pieces of scrap wood on the other side of the headstock. Tighten the clamp and the bushing will pop out, hit the end of the clamp, and fall to the bench. If a permanent fixture is desired drill an oversized hole in a piece of 3/4" stock and use it the same way.

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by Hambone

Thanx! There's so much I want to do but there's little enough time to make myself "well" enough to even want to.

Your idea of white glue is actually a perfect one for fixing this problem in a wood neck. That glue will attach itself to the raw wood sides of the hole and stay forever. For the graphite neck, wood glue shouldn't stick very well. While that might help with the "fit", it might just spin in the hole. I dunno.

Excellent point about using a drift for removal of tuner bushings. For the uninitiated, a "drift" is usually some sort of hard material used between a hammer and the object being removed. Soft metals are preferred because they dont ding harder metals. But I've got a solution for a perfect drift that just about everyone has in the toolbox - a socket from a ratchet wrench set. While the exact dimension escapes me right now, there are several that are perfect fits for the various tuner bushing holes. Just put the socket behind the bushing and give it a rap with a hammer. Be sure to watch which direction the bushing flies off the headstock. Keep looking, it's down there somewhere!

"Be sure to watch which direction the bushing flies off the headstock. Keep looking, it's down there somewhere!"

It's unbelievable how a part that hits the floor can just disappear.

I worked with a guy in an electronics repair shop who watched me crawl around on the floor looking for a dropped screw or tiny nut until he gave me a good tip. Keep the floor clean and you can lay a flashlight down right on the floor and sweep the beam across the floor. The shadow from a little screw makes a pointer that's easy to spot.

And then there's the washer or screw that is gone forever, swallowed up and never seen again.

[eutgard]

Thanks Hambone!

It worked. After epoxy cured, bushing can be removed with some pulling. And if pushed again, they stayed there.

[Hambone]

Originally Posted by pkr2

And then there's the washer or screw that is gone forever, swallowed up and never seen again.

Have you tried the drier yet? Maybe it's in there with all of the odd socks.

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by Hambone

Have you tried the drier yet? Maybe it's in there with all of the odd socks.

LOL No, but that's a thought.

[Rhomco]

copper shielding tape to wrap the bushing just enough to make a press fit in the tuner hole.
Rob