Low action without fret buzz?

[Tim Harrison]

hey,

i've been through all the setup articles and tutorials at the top of the forum, but i can't find what i need.

i've lowered my strings to get fret buzz, so that i could set the truss rod to get it buzzing, or not buzzing equally over the whole of the fretboard.

the problem is when i come to raising my strings back to where i'd like them. the only way to get rid of the frets buzzing is to set them about 50mm over the board. which obviously is way too high. i like my bass setup pretty much as low as it can get.

i've experimented with shimming the neck, but it hasn't really helped. the frets should be ok, as the bass is only a couple of months old. i'd like to be able to set it up myself as i can't find anywhere near me that does setups, and on all my other basses i've had, i've been able to set them up nicely.

it's the Squier vintage modified fretted jazz bass

would greatly appreciate any help,

thanks,
tim

[202dy]

Congratulations on your willingness to do your own setups. Since you've been through the stickies at the top of the page you know how to take the key measurements, namely string height and relief. Post the data and someone will help you.

[Zooberwerx]

Tim,

Your post is a little confusing. Did you lower your strings solely to set truss rod relief? If so, probably not a good idea. A straight edge is ideal but you can use the string itself to determine relief (neck bow) by depressing any string at the 1st and 24th fret. You should see a gap between the string and 9th - 12th fret about the thickness of two business cards. Once you've set your relief, you can then adjust string height and intonation to taste. I know I've over simplified the process but at least you'll be headed in the right direction. Note: there are a handful of seasoned players here on TB who tout the benefits of having a perfectly straight fretboard. So be it. I can't pull it off without an ungodly amount of buzz and rattle. Sounds like you're experiencing the same problem. Stick to the tutorials for the time being. If you're still having problems, take it to a tech you trust and have him show how it done. Best money you can spend. With a little practice you'll be able to set up your axes like a pro!

Riis

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Joshua

First and foremost, this is how we'll get it nailed down 100%.^^^



Firstly, remove any shims from the neck to start with (imo), then (also imo) change 24th fret above to the fret where the neck meets the body, and 2 business cards to 1, and you'd have the first step I'd follow. Lock down relief, then move on.

Riis is not wrong, I merely approach it a little differently.

Joshua,

Good points! I think I'm still using an BP guide / reference...can't remember where I picked it up. Yes, if you move from the 24th fret to the ~17th fret, the relief drops to 1 business card.

FWIW, I actually get a kick out of doing my own routine set-ups. The heavy-duty stuff (fretwork, etc) still goes to the tech.

Riis

[EADG mx]

I too like my strings as low as they can possible go w/o fretbuzz. Personally I don't bother with measurements - I figure if the strings are where I like them and I'm not getting any buzz, why does it matter if the measurements conform to any standards?

I just use this rule of thumb off of Gary Willis' setup guide:

- if you lower the strings and only frets 1-5 buzz, neck is too straight
- if you lower the strings and only frets 12 up buzz, neck is too curved
- if you lower the strings and all frets buzz, your strings are just too low.


That said my setup process is like this:
( note: remember to constantly retune while doing this. adjustments will knock your strings out of tune)

- lower strings at the bridge until they're bottomed out
- raise them until fretbuzz starts to clear up in one fret region (1-5 or 12+)
- adjust truss rod accordingly

maybe repeat this, if necessary.

next:

- adjust saddle height until buzz stops
- fine tune height for string-to-string-balance


then just do the intonation and pickup height if you need to and you're done. You can also clean the fretboard/change the strings as part of the process if either are needed.

I guess some guys might find this process really unusual or improper but that's fine with me. It works for me and gets me the results I want. I don't do this personally but if you want to save time, take the measurements down after so you can adjust according to them next time.

[Tim Harrison]

what i mean when i said i lowered the strings to set the relief, it's what EADG mx said, from the Gary Willis setup site. i'm pretty sure i've got the relief right though.

from what EADG mx said:

- lower strings at the bridge until they're bottomed out
- raise them until fretbuzz starts to clear up in one fret region (1-5 or 12+)
- adjust truss rod accordingly

i've done all that, but the buzz doesn't stop until the strings get very high. i think the truss rod's set ok, cos it never just buzzes in one region, it's equal all over the board.

do you think i need to keep experimenting with shims?

thanks for the help everyone, i appreciate it
tim

[202dy]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Note the bold (@ EADG mx); this is why measurements solve problems.

@ Tim Harrison - it seems like you're taking a hit or miss approach. Let's lock down relief for sure, then move on. Have you taken any shims out? Assuming yes, measure relief the way I noted. Let's get it to @ 1-2 business cards worth (assuming you aren't measuring with a ruler). For what it's worth, I also prefer the Mr. Gearhead link to the Gary Willis one...

Note that if you are in a dry, cold region, moisture is pulled out of the neck usually making it have more relief as the tension of the strings pulls the neck.

That would be winking in the dark.

[Tim Harrison]

yep i've checked the spacing around the 9/12th fret and it's about the size of a business card (or two)

and i've took the shim out too,

what next?

[Chad.mundt]

50mm? That's like almost two inches!

[Tim Harrison]

sorry, more like 10mm lol

[zazz]

sometimes with the lower quality asian output the best approach is a proffesional fret dressing and setup ....which can give you a bass that is on par with basses of a much higher price even taking into account the cost of the setup.

If its the frets that arent right ..all the shims and neck adjustmenst in the world wont get around that problem...and i am talking from experience on this one.

[Tim Harrison]

yeah, that sounds about right zazz.

i'm gonna do some research into prices and stuff.

thanks

[Tim Harrison]

do you think it'll need a dress considering it's only a couple of months old?

[zazz]

Originally Posted by Tim Harrison

do you think it'll need a dress considering it's only a couple of months old?

from my experience thats where the asians fall down the most...the guitars themselves are ok but they arent experienced in that final setup ...and its the fret levelling and finish that seems to be the biggest ommision. Its why certain manufacturers have the guitars sent back to the usa for that final phase of tlc and they make a big deal of telling you that.

but... you say squire ...but which country??

japan is ok.

[emblymouse]

It is quite possible. It's not that they are worn, but perhaps not seated uniformly in the first place. Until you know this, you can't accurately predict what the adjustments will do.

I just had a complete fret dressing done on a bass. The action was set nice and low and the neck was adjusted almost flat. In the techs hands, nary a buzz. When I played it - buzz city! It was too low for me. We removed shims, added relief AND raised saddles until it was almost buzz free. I have learned to accept some buzzing with the way I play. Just remember that your touch has a huge amount to do with this. Measurements that work for one guy may not work for you.

[zazz]

slow train to dawn.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Note the bold (@ EADG mx); this is why measurements solve problems.

I know I know..

no offense to anyone who finds problems with my method, but I think there's a good chance that either:

- you aren't following the instructions properly
- you just don't know what you're doing (sorry)
- you just can't do a setup without measuring (this isn't a bad thing)

the Gary Willis fretbuzz test works for me personally. I know it's not for everyone though. Keep in mind that I've been playing for years and I've dedicated a lot of time to learning about setup, getting a feel for my basses, playing with minimal effort, etc.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by Tim Harrison

what i mean when i said i lowered the strings to set the relief, it's what EADG mx said, from the Gary Willis setup site. i'm pretty sure i've got the relief right though.

from what EADG mx said:

- lower strings at the bridge until they're bottomed out
- raise them until fretbuzz starts to clear up in one fret region (1-5 or 12+)
- adjust truss rod accordingly

i've done all that, but the buzz doesn't stop until the strings get very high. i think the truss rod's set ok, cos it never just buzzes in one region, it's equal all over the board.

do you think i need to keep experimenting with shims?

If your strings buzz all up and down the neck I don't see how your strings could possibly be that high. Raise them until the point where they stop buzzing, then post the measurements (or better yet, a pic)

[tpa]

The way the string is pick-/plucked affects buzzing. Two variables for plucking hand hand: how much energy you put into the string (e.g. how much you "lift" before releasing) and the vibration mode of the string (e.g. hardness of finger/pick a/o how close to the bridge). A "hard" tone with more dominant higher harmonics a/o high energy require more room. Hard tones require more relief than soft tones. Fretting hand technique is also important. Position the fretting finger close to the fret, and experiment with how hard you push the string towards the fretboard. Too hard and it will get detuned too soft and it will buzz.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by tpa

The way the string is pick-/plucked affects buzzing. Two variables for plucking hand hand: how much energy you put into the string (e.g. how much you "lift" before releasing) and the vibration mode of the string (e.g. hardness of finger/pick a/o how close to the bridge). A "hard" tone with more dominant higher harmonics a/o high energy require more room. Hard tones require more relief than soft tones. Fretting hand technique is also important. Position the fretting finger close to the fret, and experiment with how hard you push the string towards the fretboard. Too hard and it will get detuned too soft and it will buzz.

this is a good point. Technique is an often underrated cause of fretbuzz

always fret right behind the fret with enough effort to prevent buzzing.

also turn up your amp and play softer

cutting highs/treble can also mask fretbuzz to a degree... not very much tbh but it helps