Maxed Rod; Vintage Bass; Is there Hope?

[DavePlaysBass]

I just ran across a G&L L-5000 from the days of Leo. One of 400. I paid to much from Ebay because I really like the color (Doh). It gets to dry CO from SC with strings untensioned. I tension up the strings and the relief is more than any thing I have ever saw. I loosen the strings and go to the truss rod. It will not tighten. I loosen it 1/4 turn and then tighten 1/4 turn. No more room to go.

So I untension the strings and say I will give it a couple of days to settle. I just tensioned the strings a whole step below standard (they are thick strings 50-70-85-105-128). I measure greater than 0.035" relief (9th fret, 1 and last fretted). I am going to take her to a Luthier but I am curious if I have something that is typically fixable or am I probably getting an Ebay burn.

I have read about loosening the rod and clamping the bass into position with a slight back bow. The Luthier I spoke too has some experience doing this but it did not sound like something he has done a lot with.

The seller is trying to tell me it is the dry CO air. I have received multiple bass in CO. Some need a slight tweak. Most are fine. I had one problem with a bass and it was one that also came with heavy strings. I think there are a lot of people who put heavy strings on basses and let them sit too long without proper adjustment. The seller also told me via email that the truss rod moved freely in either direction and that he had a Luthier look at it before he sold it. He seems like an OK guy, but I cannot believe the bass went from playable to what I have via a trip to CO.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,

Dave

[rjny36]

Originally Posted by GlennW

You can gain some play by removing the adjusting nut and putting washers on the rod and then re-installing the nut.

Was your neck fairly straight with no strings and no tension on the nut? If it was, that's good.

+1

Washers are a tried-and-true method.

[ducatiman]

Originally Posted by DavePlaysBass

I just ran across a G&L L-5000 from the days of Leo. One of 400. I paid to much from Ebay because I really like the color (Doh). It gets to dry CO from SC with strings untensioned. I tension up the strings and the relief is more than any thing I have ever saw. I loosen the strings and go to the truss rod. It will not tighten. I loosen it 1/4 turn and then tighten 1/4 turn. No more room to go.

So I untension the strings and say I will give it a couple of days to settle. I just tensioned the strings a whole step below standard (they are thick strings 50-70-85-105-128). I measure greater than 0.035" relief (9th fret, 1 and last fretted). I am going to take her to a Luthier but I am curious if I have something that is typically fixable or am I probably getting an Ebay burn.

I have read about loosening the rod and clamping the bass into position with a slight back bow. The Luthier I spoke too has some experience doing this but it did not sound like something he has done a lot with.

The seller is trying to tell me it is the dry CO air. I have received multiple bass in CO. Some need a slight tweak. Most are fine. I had one problem with a bass and it was one that also came with heavy strings. I think there are a lot of people who put heavy strings on basses and let them sit too long without proper adjustment. The seller also told me via email that the truss rod moved freely in either direction and that he had a Luthier look at it before he sold it. He seems like an OK guy, but I cannot believe the bass went from playable to what I have via a trip to CO.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,

Dave

dave-
as you know, both temp & humidity changes wreak havok with necks and setups. in your case, the carolinas (extreme humidity and temp this time of year) to colo (dryer & cooler) present a textbook example of this fact.

with the truss rod nut being bottomed, i'm sure your luthier will "shim" the nut by simply using correct (both diameter and thickness) size washer(s) if necessary.
he'll correct the relief by a series of deliberate, sequential adjustments. i trust you'll have him doing a full setup as well. barring anything being actually damaged, you'll be fine. good decision letting a pro see to it, though.

i had my MIM jazz neck go bonkers in a matter of an hour. my music room is air conditioned. i went to a rehearsal under *very* hot and humid conditions and the buzz started within an hour. back home,it stabilized again.

congrats on a nice bass!

----------duc

[62bass]

Originally Posted by rjny36

+1

Washers are a tried-and-true method.

I've done it on a number of basses and guitars over the years with good results.

[DavePlaysBass]

Thanks. I have thought about doing this. How many washers can you stack on there. This is a bullet style nut and the hole looks pretty small. I am assuming I would be using the small diameter, thicker lock washer to get in the hole. And I am assuming I need a lot of rotation given the greater than 0.035" relief it has right now with a relatively light set of strings on the neck. Also, there is some of a forward bow even when the strings are not tensioned.

Dave

[John Wentzien]

Washers will work fine!

[62bass]

Originally Posted by DavePlaysBass

Thanks. I have thought about doing this. How many washers can you stack on there. This is a bullet style nut and the hole looks pretty small. I am assuming I would be using the small diameter, thicker lock washer to get in the hole. And I am assuming I need a lot of rotation given the greater than 0.035" relief it has right now with a relatively light set of strings on the neck. Also, there is some of a forward bow even when the strings are not tensioned.

Dave

If you look, you can find washers that will fit the truss rod hole without using a lock washer. I got a bunch cheap from the hardware section of home depot that work fine with my Fender P.

I don't know how many washers you'll need for sure. Start with 3 and see how that works. You can always add or subtract as needed. If you put on 3 and don't seem to have enough thread protruding to put the nut back on easily, take one off. If you seem to still have lots, add another.

One thing-be careful you don't cross thread the nut when replacing it. If it doesn't turn easily when you first start to turn it, back off and don't force it. Sometimes the nut is worn and can give trouble. Sometimes the truss ros threads can be the problem. Usually it's just the fact you haven't started the nut correctly. I like to put a very small dab of vaseline on the end of the truss rod to lubricate the threads. Don't use more than a tiny amount on a Q-Tip. Others, myself included, have once in a while used 3 in one oil, but that's even trickier because it's easier to apply too much. I once used paraffin wax and just pushed a small amount into the threads in the nut with a toothpick. That worked fine too.

[DavePlaysBass]

I loosened the rod a turn or two with no string tension. The forward bow is quite a bit. I started with 0.020" (credit card) width of relief at nine (no string tension) with the rod in the maxed position. I have easily double that relief with the loosening. I have a feeling clamps or heat presses are in the future.

Does shipping the bass from SC to CO warrant this extreme of a forward bow? Or would I be safe to assume this bass had a forward bow problem before it left SC?

[allexcosta]

Do you really need strings this heavy?

[DavePlaysBass]

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Do you really need strings this heavy?

As I stated above these strings are tuned one step down. Because they are tuned A-D-G-C-F, tension wise this is a little less than a medium light set of strings. The guy sent the bass with these strings on it all the way loosened. No point putting on new strings if it is already clear that there is a neck issue with less tension than the strings I normally use. My plan is /was to use 45-100-130 DA XLs tuned standard which should be pretty kind to a neck.

[pkr2]

Did you shim the truss rod nut with washers?

[DavePlaysBass]

I am actually thinking about getting my money back. I paid with a Credit Card and I think I can get just ship it back and get a refund assuming I can show show the misrepresenation to the Credit Card company (near mint does not equate to bum neck).

[Pilgrim]

I also live in Colorado (Fort Collins) and don't believe that the climate accounts for the neck problems. It doesn't make THAT much difference.

However, the previous owner may like high relief. Your strings (45-100-130 DA XLs) sound awfully big. I'd look at stings with a .105 E.

Have you spoken with him? If the terms of the sale are as-is, then the bass is yours and you'll need to work through it.

I'm thinking that a combination of washers on the truss rod and possibly a shim in the neck pocket will do the trick. I don't think anyone has mentioned a shim yet.

[DavePlaysBass]

Hey Pilgrim,

I think we have chatted over at the Fender Forum a while back. If memory is correct you are working at CSU.

The strings are a standard DA XL-170 five string set that go 45-65-80-100-130 which I abbreviated as 45-100-130.

As for the relief in the neck, there is something wrong. Dan at Spotlight looked at it and quickly came to the conclusion that the neck is in bad shape. With string tension completely removed, you cannot get the neck to back bow with the rod in the max position.

Dan Lentz a high powered guy down in a shop out of Westminster said heat pressing to the tune of $100 to $200 without any guarantees. And even if it works now, he has seen them go back.

The bass was represented as "near mint". In talking with others who have been burnt on Ebay it comes down to this. If you can show that the product was misrepresented and you paid by credit card, the charges will be reversed. I am told that this type of dispute is common and typically goes in the direction of the buyer. And I have Dan at Spotilight (a certified Fender technician) writing a letter regarding his professional opinion of the bass.

Dave

[ducatiman]

Originally Posted by pkr2

Did you shim the truss rod nut with washers?

+1 inquiring minds want to know..... did your tech give this a try? if yes, results.... if no, why didn't he try?


---------------duc

[HMZ]

Originally Posted by GlennW

You can gain some play by removing the adjusting nut and putting washers on the rod and then re-installing the nut.

Was your neck fairly straight with no strings and no tension on the nut? If it was, that's good.

+1

[DavePlaysBass]

Neck has forward bow with rod in maxed position and no string tension. Luthier is writing a letter explaining this.

[Mrdak]

Please excuse me, I would like to know about something regarding the washers. On Fender jazz and P necks where the rod adjusts at the heel of the neck, If the rod can't turn any more, do I have to remove the rod completely? Or can one of you tell me where to put the washers on that particular kind of neck?
thanks

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by Mrdak

Please excuse me, I would like to know about something regarding the washers. On Fender jazz and P necks where the rod adjusts at the heel of the neck, If the rod can't turn any more, do I have to remove the rod completely? Or can one of you tell me where to put the washers on that particular kind of neck?
thanks

Same idea. Just remove the truss rod nut and drop a couple of washers over end of the rod. Just make sure you leave enough threads for the nut to hold tight.

The washer trick works pretty well actually. It equates to about one extra turn per washer.

[Mrdak]

Originally Posted by Chasarms

Same idea. Just remove the truss rod nut and drop a couple of washers over end of the rod. Just make sure you leave enough threads for the nut to hold tight.

The washer trick works pretty well actually. It equates to about one extra turn per washer.

OK, so if I just keep loosening the top of the rod, that is actually a nut and it will come off before the entire rod comes out?
I've done loads of adjusting, but never have loosened one all the way out.