Measuring in MM's, what is considered a low action, and high action

[Chili]

i'm curious to know in MM's what is considered Low and high action, at the minute, my bass is is 5 and a half mm's from 12th fret to the E string, and 4mm's from the 12th fret to the G string, is that considered a high action?

[DavePlaysBass]

Read the Sadowsky article pointed to in the Setup and Repair. You can tranlate from inch to mm by multiplying the inch measurment by 25.4.

Your action is high if I am doing the math right (0.196" on E, 0.158" on G). You may want to fret at the first fret when making the measurment to take the nut out of the equation.

[Chili]

also, i'm not getting any buzz on the D and G strings when fretted, but i do on the E and A strings, its really annoying me now, everything i do brings up a new irritation, like i get rid of the rattle in the kneck when i play the E open, and then it buzzes loads on the Higher notes on the E string, when i pluck each string open, they all produce (some more than others) a slight hissing kinda buzz, especially the E string, does anyone know why this is, it never used todo it, just since i've started adjusting the truss rod and the bridge

[obaka-san]

sounds like you haven't got your relief set right or if you've recently dropped your action your not used to playing with a lighter touch.

also check all screws, nuts, etc are tight, every now and then a loose screw can cause mysterious rattles when playing

[Chili]

what do the screws on the back of the bridge do exactly? i turned the and they were loose, but they were turning the lengh of the bridge saddles, should i turn these screws so they are tight or leave them abit loose?

[kevinmoore73]

Though I believe this is more of a string height measurement than an action measurement, my strings are all about 2.5mm off the last fret with open strings on my Lakland 55-01.

If I fret the first and 12th frets, I have a very small gap between the 7th fret and the string. The gap is maybe the thickness of a business card.

[Matthew Bryson]

The action on all of my Fenders is set at, or just below, factory specs.

The factory spec for string height is:

Measuring from the bottom of the string to the top of the 17th fret - 2.4 mm bass side, 2.0 mm treble side.

Like I said, I'm at those specs or lower - and I find I can still very much "dig in" and play about as hard as I want to, so I consider this a medium action.

I'd say that based on the measurements you're giving us, your action is too high. (unless you like mile high action)

Honestly, after reading all of your posts in this thread, I think that spending the money for a pro set up at the local guitar shop would be money well spent.

[Chili]

yeah i think your right, ill try lowering the action and adjusting the truss abit more, then take it to a shop and see what they can do.

[Matthew Bryson]

Originally Posted by Chili

yeah i think your right, ill try lowering the action and adjusting the truss abit more, then take it to a shop and see what they can do.

Measure your relief (controlled by truss rod) before adjusting anything and measure it again after each adjustment of the truss rod. Remember that truss rod adjustments may continue to "settle in" - that is you may get a little more movement in the direction you've just adjusted over the next 24 hours after adjusting. Measure after every 1/4 turn of the truss rod.

Do you know how to measure relief, and what you want your relief to be?

If not, that is what you need to learn next before doing anything.

Once you've set your relief, THEN you can set your string height. Do you know if you want a low action or a high action? You can use factory specs, you can experiment a bit. Some people will lower all four untill they all buzz, then, bit by bit raise the strings untill they don't buzz when played with reasonable technique.

Your action should be slightly higher on the bass side and lower on the treble side and generally follow the radius of the fret board.

Then intonate as described above. (by deek)

You CAN do it yourself and people here willl answer questions if you get stuck - or, if you get stuck, having a pro do it is sometimes worth it.

Just remember - Relief, then string height, then intonation. Measure before you adjust and ask questions here. Good luck!

[Chili]

Originally Posted by Matthew Bryson

Measure your relief (controlled by truss rod) before adjusting anything and measure it again after each adjustment of the truss rod. Remember that truss rod adjustments may continue to "settle in" - that is you may get a little more movement in the direction you've just adjusted over the next 24 hours after adjusting. Measure after every 1/4 turn of the truss rod.

Do you know how to measure relief, and what you want your relief to be?

If not, that is what you need to learn next before doing anything.

Once you've set your relief, THEN you can set your string height. Do you know if you want a low action or a high action? You can use factory specs, you can experiment a bit. Some people will lower all four untill they all buzz, then, bit by bit raise the strings untill they don't buzz when played with reasonable technique.

Your action should be slightly higher on the bass side and lower on the treble side and generally follow the radius of the fret board.

Then intonate as described above. (by deek)

You CAN do it yourself and people here willl answer questions if you get stuck - or, if you get stuck, having a pro do it is sometimes worth it.

Just remember - Relief, then string height, then intonation. Measure before you adjust and ask questions here. Good luck!

yeah i know how to measure releif, hold down the string at the first fret and the last fret and the string shouldnt move anymore than the thickness of a credit card when pushing down around the 7th fret on the same string. I'm tightening the truss and then ill lower the strings, the factory settings on a musicman st for action is 2.4mm measured at the 12th fret on both the G and E strings, so ill adjust and see how it goes.

Thx for your patience deek with helping me, somethings are pretty hard to grasp in writing in situations like this, and i dont wonna completly destroy my bass lol, but anyway ill keep trying, take in everything everyone has said and if it still isnt right, ill pop down to the local shop.

also, i get the whole adjusting the intonation thing, but what exactly do yous mean by sharp or flat? i play the opn E, then play the 12th fret (E), and they both sound the same exept ones an octave higher, does this mean the intonation is ok.

edit: i've tightened the truss rod, and its now abit stiff while turning it, i've only got this bass last year and havnt turned the truss rod much exept for the last couple of month, or when it starts to get stiff, should i stop turning? The fret buzz is now all over the kneck more or less which i hear is a good thing, although there is still abit more buzz on the higher notes of the E and A strings, and it buzzes on the lower notes of the E and A strings, and theres slight buzzing on the G and D strings but not every single note on the kneck buzzes, like The high E on the A string is perfectly clear, anyway, so when the buzzing spreads around the kneck more is that a sign its tighened enough?, and should now mabe lower the strings?

[Ostinato]

Originally Posted by Chili

yeah i know how to measure releif, hold down the string at the first fret and the last fret and the string shouldnt move anymore than the thickness of a credit card when pushing down around the 7th fret on the same string. I'm tightening the truss and then ill lower the strings, the factory settings on a musicman st for action is 2.4mm measured at the 12th fret on both the G and E strings, so ill adjust and see how it goes.

Thx for your patience deek with helping me, somethings are pretty hard to grasp in writing in situations like this, and i dont wonna completly destroy my bass lol, but anyway ill keep trying, take in everything everyone has said and if it still isnt right, ill pop down to the local shop.

also, i get the whole adjusting the intonation thing, but what exactly do yous mean by sharp or flat? i play the opn E, then play the 12th fret (E), and they both sound the same exept ones an octave higher, does this mean the intonation is ok.

edit: i've tightened the truss rod, and its now abit stiff while turning it, i've only got this bass last year and havnt turned the truss rod much exept for the last couple of month, or when it starts to get stiff, should i stop turning? The fret buzz is now all over the kneck more or less which i hear is a good thing, although there is still abit more buzz on the higher notes of the E and A strings, and it buzzes on the lower notes of the E and A strings, and theres slight buzzing on the G and D strings but not every single note on the kneck buzzes, like The high E on the A string is perfectly clear, anyway, so when the buzzing spreads around the kneck more is that a sign its tighened enough?, and should now mabe lower the strings?

....StingRay truss rods are a pain in the ass to adjust. The stiffness is normal as you tighten on a new Musicman, They're not easy like Fenders so if you need to go further, loosen it a bit then tighten it some more. Don't worry about breaking anything...there's a lot of adjustment left, even though it doesn't feel like it.

Your action is incredibly high if it's 5mm at the 12th fret though...strange you're getting buzz....You could sight the neck and check if you have any forward bow; that's what causes fret buzz near the headstock but I seriously doubt it.

The best place to measure string height is at the 17th fret, not the 12th...I make my height to 5/64", or 2 mm for all strings

[Chili]

oh, i've always just tuned by ear, i did have a tuner a while back but left it at an audition an never got a new one, ill get my self a tuner and check see what the intonation is like.

about the truss rod being stiff, i have turned it a good few half turns before it started to get stiff, mabe its becouse i have just always stopped there becouse i thought thats as far as i could go, and hasnt loosened up yet, or mabe its becouse i've tightened to far, is there really anyway to tell? does anyone elses truss get stiff if you keep tightening it?

[Ostinato]

Originally Posted by deek

This goes against everything I've ever been told - and I suggest you take Ostinato's advice w/a grain of salt (no offense meant Ostinato!).

The reason that (traditionally) you're supposed to measure at the 12th fret is because that's roughly where the center of the string is supposed to hit.

I guess that's ok.

The 17th fret is where the neck meets the body on most vintage style basses. It's where you'll get the most accurate measurement for string height, but I know where you're coming from..

My system gives me the lowest action without any buzz. 2.4mm at the 12th is too tall for me.

INTONATION:

Plug into a tuner..pluck fretted note at the 12th..check tuning..pluck harmonic at 12th..check tuning.

If plucked note is sharper than harmonic, pull saddle back...if plucked note is flatter than harmonic, move saddle forward.

[Chili]

no offense taken Deek.

I'm gunna lower the strings now to the measurment Ostinato said, and highten them a little bit see if it makes a differance, if nothing, i'm gunna go down to my tiny little local music shop and see what they can do.

Thx for everyones help

Edit: I've only tryed this second lowering the E string, but it doesnt go as low as 2mm, the lowest i got it was 2 and a half mm and the bridge saddle for the E string was at the very bottom, couldnt go any lower, also when i lower the right side of the bridge saddle (looking up the kneck), it doesnt lower, the twirly bit just lifts off the bridge.....i think i deffinitly need to take this to the shop lol

[Ostinato]

You've got neck issues. yeah take it in to someone who knows Sitngrays.

[caffiene-bomb]

well 1 m & m is a pretty high bridge

[Matthew Bryson]

Originally Posted by caffiene-bomb

well 1 m & m is a pretty high bridge

It depends on where you measure. I easily have a peanut M&M of clearance from the string to the body, between the p/ups ...but much less than a plain M&M from the string to the top of the 17th fret.

[Ostinato]

Oh you guys are really getting out of hand