Measuring tolerances

[chadhargis]

Ok...I'm a newbie, but I'm learning.

I'm going to restring my bass tonight, and I've read the manual on how to adjust the truss rods (yes, I have two) and how to set the string height and intonation.

My question is, what do you guys use to measure the tolerance. My manual gives me the specs like "2.5-3mm", but I don't have anything to measure that with. Ruler isn't going to work as it's not in mm format.

Also, the manual says to adjust the truss rods first, then the string heights. But when you adjust the string height, won't that skew the neck releif?

Any tips or tricks from you grizzled veterans would be appreciated.

[bongomania]

Adjusting the string height will not have a measurable effect on the neck relief. I find that it's good to have a caliper that measures in both metric and imperial--I use mine nearly every day, in one project or another, and it was not expensive.
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CCsQ8gIwBQ#


Also, for measuring tolerance I like to pretend I am a jihaadist pregnant welfare queen.

[chadhargis]

Well, I'll be damned. That's the same caliper I use for working on my motorcycles. If the jaws will fit under the strings then I'm in good shape.

I've got a killer set of feeler gauges for doing valve adjustments, but none thick enough to measure string height.

Thanks!

[PBass101]

Originally Posted by chadhargis

My manual gives me the specs like "2.5-3mm", but I don't have anything to measure that with. Ruler isn't going to work as it's not in mm format.

A Google search will convert mm to inches, and vice versa. For instance, (1/16) inch = 1.5875 millimeters.

Also, don't go by "published specs" for string height. Get your strings where you want them and just check to make sure they're radius'd right.

[chadhargis]

To radius them properly, wouldn't you need to measure the height?

The "book" measurements would only be a starting point. I've been playing for a month, so I don't really know what my particular setup is yet. That's going to take time for me to figure out.

[202dy]

Basic set up low set up is 6/64" and 5/64" bass and treble side respectively measured at the twelfth fret from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. General makes a six inch rule graduated in thirty seconds and sixty fourths. They are available at most well stocked hardware stores or at the Large Home Center out on the four lane.

Relief in the US is measured in thousandths of an inch. A pro will use a precision ground straight edge and feeler gauges. The benchmark here is .012" at the twelfth fret. Some manuals suggest fretting a string at the first and seventeenth frets and using that as the straight edge. The problem with this is that the string moves with the feeler gauges so it is more time consuming to get an accurate read.

These are good tolerances to shoot for but you may tweak the set up to please yourself. If you like it higher, by all means adjust it so. If you like it lower, especially if you prefer the neck with little or no relief, understand that factory fret leveling can leave a bit to be desired. Quite often it the frets will have to be dressed if ultra low, buzz free action is desired.

[chadhargis]

Thanks 202dy....looks like I have some more reading to do.

I know that I'm not going to get things spot on perfect, as I don't have the knowledge or proper tools, but I'm confident I can get pretty close.

Am I correct in assuming that as long as it intonates properly, the rest is really personal preference?

[John Wentzien]

I use metric allen wrenches as "feeler" guages for string height.

[John Wentzien]

A good feeler guage for neck relief is a piece of guitar string..just get the guage that maches the relief you want...Ask a geetard for the extra when they cut one on their next string change.

[chadhargis]

Excellent idea on the hex wrenches. I've got a full set of those suckers from working on metric motorcycles.

[John Wentzien]

Originally Posted by chadhargis

Excellent idea on the hex wrenches. I've got a full set of those suckers from working on metric motorcycles.

yep!
Just make sure you keep them flat against the top of the fret...very accurate.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by chadhargis

Am I correct in assuming that as long as it intonates properly, the rest is really personal preference?

Interesting way to put it but, yes that is it in a nutshell. Set it up so that it feels good for you. Don't worry about what other people think about the right tolerances. Intonation has little to do with the set up, given that the saddles are near the right position when you start the work. Intonation is the last thing you do before you put it in the case.

Except for writing up the bill.

[mongo2]

I set my relief using my Mark Is with age induced acuity enhancers to be within 1 minute of scosche.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by mongo2

I set my relief using my Mark Is with age induced acuity enhancers to be within 1 minute of scosche.

well yeah, if you want to get all technical about it!

the overall idea is to first get the neck itself pretty straight, as in a tiny bit of relief with no one area of it going into backbow, then have the nut slots cut low enough that the open strings are barely higher over the first fret than they are over the second fret when holding down the first, and finally adjust the saddles as low as you can get them without buzzing.

as for intonation (after all this is done), you want it to be in tune up the neck when you play it the way you play. if you bang on it, this might mean setting things to be slightly flat on the higher frets so that they get squeezed up into tune when you're rockin' out.

these specs will be different for different quality basses and different style players (the better the fretwork and the lighter the touch the closer you can get to that "zero line"), but that's the way to approach it, the "ideal" set up as it were.

[John Wentzien]

Originally Posted by walterw

well yeah, if you want to get all technical about it!

the overall idea is to first get the neck itself pretty straight, as in a tiny bit of relief with no one area of it going into backbow, then have the nut slots cut low enough that the open strings are barely higher over the first fret than they are over the second fret when holding down the first, and finally adjust the saddles as low as you can get them without buzzing.

these specs will be different for different quality basses and different style players (the better the fretwork and the lighter the touch the closer you can get to that "zero line"), but that's the way to approach it, the "ideal" set up as it were.

Yep!

[chadhargis]

Great stuff guys. I got my strings on today, and I'm going to let them stretch and break in a bit before I start turning screws. Looks like it should be pretty easy to get things set up. I'll take my time and make sure I don't make any dramatic changes. Little adjustments at a time.

[walterw]

a big thing to do before you start measuring is push down on the strings right at the nut and at the saddles. otherwise, they curve up off the contact points instead of going in a dead straight line from nut to saddle, and that will throw things off.

[PBass101]

You can set the height of the E string and the G string (or whichever the highest and lowest strings are for your bass) and then use a radius gauge for your fretboard's radius to bring the remaining strings into the correct radius. Stewmac has them pretty cheap.

Good luck with your bass!