Micro-Tilt Adjustment Question

TNCreature · #1 11-17-2011, 12:17 PM

Hi,

I just purchased a 1990 Fender Jazz Bass Plus 5 (the one with the Kubicki pre-amp).
This bass has the Micro-Tilt neck adjustment and I have to say that I REALLY like this as a feature, and yet I have never seen it on any other bass that I have owned (I am sure they have been used without my knowledge on other brands).

2 Questions:

What is your opinion on why it has not become a "standard" feature? Cost? Effectiveness? Pros/Cons?

Also, I think this feature would be a lifesaver for an old Steinberger that I have (graphite neck) which has no truss rod. I would like to adjust the tilt and was planning on a shim. Could I reasonably retro-fit the body of the Steinie to have a micro-tilt feature?

I appreciate you expert opinions.

Thank you,
Mark

Bassamatic · #2 11-17-2011, 12:23 PM

I have a couple of older Peaveys with the adjustable neck tilt feature as well.

I think that the issue is that many players feel that the neck to body contact is not as good with the adjustment mechanism in between. Of course there is some added cost as well.

Whether or not this is really an issue - I don't know. Works great on my Foundations - no need to add shims.

SirRolfe · #3 11-17-2011, 01:35 PM

I know on older G&L's with the micro-tilt feature, the force of of the micro-tilt screw countering the force of the bolts (wood screws) often causes a hump to form on the upper frets. Micro-tilt was designed as a quick fix; shims are for more permanent set-ups.

walterw · #4 11-17-2011, 09:31 PM

lots of fender USA guitars have the micro-tilt.

i'm not so sure of the "ski ramp" problem; the micro-tilt presses on the last few frets from underneath, but the ski ramp issue usually happens where the back of the neck transitions from round to square, before it even gets to the neck plate.

that said, i always try to set up these instruments with the neck-tilt screw backed out, so there's full wood-to-wood contact. that just seems better to me.

the neck-tilt is just a way to fix manufacturing errors downstream in setup, if you ask me.

mongo2 · #5 11-18-2011, 09:16 AM

My old Silvertone/Dano dolphin nose basses have the neck tilt (over a decade before Fender started using it). So far I haven't had to adjust it.

TNCreature · #6 11-18-2011, 10:25 AM

Thanks for everyone's insight. What do you think about my idea of adding a micro-tilt screw to the Steinberger? Would I be better off with a traditional shim?
thanks,
Mark

Turnaround · #7 11-18-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNCreature

Thanks for everyone's insight. What do you think about my idea of adding a micro-tilt screw to the Steinberger? Would I be better off with a traditional shim?
thanks,
Mark

There's nothing wrong with either option. But the shim is a lot easier. There is a proper neck-to-body angle that allows for a good range of saddle height adjustment while maintaining a good break angle over the saddles. Shim or micro tilt - it doesn't matter a lot which method you use to get there, but once you are there you won't have to change it again. So ask yourself if the extra effort of installing a micro tilt mechanism is worth it.

TNCreature · #8 11-18-2011, 02:32 PM

Thanks Turnaround. Much appreciated.
Mark

rojo412 · #9 11-18-2011, 02:42 PM

Steinbergers DID have microtilt necks. I can't find a pic, but they had them. XQs at least...

I've seen them on a lot of Peaveys, but Fender definitely did the most.

johnk_10 · #10 11-19-2011, 02:05 PM

IMO, the wood to wood contact isn't what transfers the body vibration/resonance to the neck. it's the mounting screws picking up the end grain in the neck that does it. (BTW, Leo Fender told me that 32 years ago

).

in your case, i'd just make a tapered shim to get it right, since it's alot easier, and will not effect the value of the instrument.

TNCreature · #11 11-19-2011, 03:41 PM

Again, I thank you all!

RoboChrist · #12 11-19-2011, 03:47 PM

I don't see how it can be anything other than the factory giving you a last option to save a bowed neck.

johnk_10 · #13 11-19-2011, 04:13 PM

IMO, a bowed neck and a micro tilt really don't have anything to do with each other.

mongo2 · #14 11-19-2011, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboChrist

I don't see how it can be anything other than the factory giving you a last option to save a bowed neck.

The microtilt is not in any way related to the relief of the neck or a bowed neck.

darkstorm · #15 11-19-2011, 04:50 PM

Because they make for a lousy neck joint is why they never became popular and why fenders from the 70's where often referred to by kids like myself as rubber neck basses. Neck easilly shifts in the pocket compared to those without that. A good neck joint dont have the air gaps those things have. A properly done neck joint doesnt need shim either to get that slight rearward neck tilt. The neck pocket is cut so it has that. Microtilt neck adjustment is gauranteed air gaps between neck and neck pocket when used. A shim imo is also a better solution then that silly idea to imo. Granted a good deal of the neck to body vibration is thru the screws themself. but you also get a significant amount between the neck and body wood if theyre tight fit together. The screws that go into the wood, not some blunted end screw that simply pushes neck out away from pocket floor and supports neck against it with small area of contact. Which is what microtilt does.

johnk_10 · #16 11-19-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkstorm

Because they make for a lousy neck joint is why they never became popular and why fenders from the 70's where often referred to by kids like myself as rubber neck basses. Neck easilly shifts in the pocket compared to those without that. A good neck joint dont have the air gaps those things have. A properly done neck joint doesnt need shim either to get that slight rearward neck tilt. The neck pocket is cut so it has that. Microtilt neck adjustment is gauranteed air gaps between neck and neck pocket when used. A shim imo is also a better solution then that silly idea to imo. Granted a good deal of the neck to body vibration is thru the screws themself. but you also get a significant amount between the neck and body wood if theyre tight fit together. The screws that go into the wood, not some blunted end screw that simply pushes neck out away from pocket floor and supports neck against it with small area of contact. Which is what microtilt does.

no offense, but IMO, quite a bit of misinformation there.............

the only area in the neck pocket where wood to wood contact is important is at the butt end of the neck, mating to the pocket. the sides and the flat surfaces in the pocket do not make much difference, if at all.

Leo fender designed his version of the micro tilt long before he left fender, and they implemented it after he was no longer with them. he used in it the early stingrays and G&L's too, and it has nothing to do with sloppily cut neck pockets (those instruments had nicely snug pockets).

BTW, you can actually get a micro tilt neck to attach to the body tighter than a standard four bolt neck, since there are three screws pulling it toward the body and the hex screw opposing the force of the other other three.

JLS · #17 11-19-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoboChrist

I don't see how it can be anything other than the factory giving you a last option to save a bowed neck.

?

One has nothing to do with the other.

JTE · #18 11-19-2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

no offense, but IMO, quite a bit of misinformation there.............

the only area in the neck pocket where wood to wood contact is important is at the butt end of the neck, mating to the pocket. the sides and the flat surfaces in the pocket do not make much difference, if at all.

Leo fender designed his version of the micro tilt long before he left fender, and they implemented it after he was no longer with them. he used in it the early stingrays and G&L's too, and it has nothing to do with sloppily cut neck pockets (those instruments had nicely snug pockets).

BTW, you can actually get a micro tilt neck to attach to the body tighter than a standard four bolt neck, since there are three screws pulling it toward the body and the hex screw opposing the force of the other other three.

Yep- the micro tilt is not a problem IFF (as in "if and only if") it's properly executed. And in the mid to late '70s, Fender wasn't much good at consistent quality execution. That's why the micro-tilt didn't catch on. Musicians by and large aren't very good at thinking things through all the way. They see a three bolt neck with micro tilt, they see that many of them have problems and say the micro-tilt is the problem without going further into the issues.

John

TNCreature · #19 11-20-2011, 06:39 AM

I find this discussion really interesting.
Always good to benefit from others experience and points of view.
Mark

Turnaround · #20 11-20-2011, 07:51 AM

It's my view that too much is made of the effects of an air gap in the neck-to-body joint. Consider that a number of premier acoustic guitar makers are using "floating neck" joints that do not rely on a solid wood-to-wood contact between neck and body, and yet deliver superb tone, sustain and volume.