Musicman Sterling setup problem

mat gregory · #1 11-21-2006, 06:22 AM

Hi guys,
I bought a musicman Sterling the other week , One thing i noticed the other day was that the G string played a fret 8 doesnt resonate as well as the other's , almost like its muted! there seems to be no fret buzz , and the problem doesnt occur on the other strings. Could this be a dead spot?? Or can it rectified by having the bass set-up by a professional??

Thanks in advance

Lord Henry · #2 11-21-2006, 06:48 AM

Well it does sound like a dead spot, though the quality of MMs tends to be so good that I'm a little suprised. Your best bet would be to get it professionally set up. If you bought the bass new within the last year most places are willing to do a set up for free so give it a go.

If that fails then you can consider either returning the bass or swapping the neck, but I'd cross those bridges if and when you come to them. For now try the set up.

Where did you get it from by the way? I grew up in Birmingham but I haven't been back for years.

Cheers

pkr2 · #3 11-21-2006, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Henry

Well it does sound like a dead spot, though the quality of MMs tends to be so good that I'm a little suprised. Your best bet would be to get it professionally set up. If you bought the bass new within the last year most places are willing to do a set up for free so give it a go.

If that fails then you can consider either returning the bass or swapping the neck, but I'd cross those bridges if and when you come to them. For now try the set up.

Where did you get it from by the way? I grew up in Birmingham but I haven't been back for years.

Cheers

A simple test to determine for sure whether it's a dead spot or not, is to hold the end of the headstock against a wall while plucking the offending note.

If the problem goes away, it is definitely a dead spot.

mat gregory · #4 11-22-2006, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Henry

Well it does sound like a dead spot, though the quality of MMs tends to be so good that I'm a little suprised. Your best bet would be to get it professionally set up. If you bought the bass new within the last year most places are willing to do a set up for free so give it a go.

If that fails then you can consider either returning the bass or swapping the neck, but I'd cross those bridges if and when you come to them. For now try the set up.

Where did you get it from by the way? I grew up in Birmingham but I haven't been back for years.

Cheers

Thanks , I bought the bass used off ebay. So taking back to the shop is out the question! Theres a luthier next door to sound control , you'll probably know it as what used to be musical exchanges!! But he should indentify the problem amd we can take it from there.

Lord Henry · #5 11-22-2006, 08:25 AM

I remember spending many an afternoon in Musical Exchanges. How the time flies...

All the best with sorting out your problem man. A good luthier should be able to identify the problem and lay out the options for you.

Cheers

fourstringdrums · #6 11-22-2006, 08:47 AM

It does sound like a dead spot. I had a Sterling Fretless that had a dead spot in almost the exact same spot on the G. I agree on taking it to a tech. I've read that sometimes a slight truss adjustment can clear up a dead spot or move it a bit so it's not as noticeable. It has something to do with the truss rod possibly pressing against that spot in the neck.

Worse comes to worse, contact the company directly. Even though you bought it used they may be able to help you out. I've heard good things about their customer service.

mat gregory · #7 11-23-2006, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkr2

A simple test to determine for sure whether it's a dead spot or not, is to hold the end of the headstock against a wall while plucking the offending note.

If the problem goes away, it is definitely a dead spot.

Did this test , the note did resonate alot better!! Most likely its a deadspot, I'll take it in for a luthier to have a look at it!!

I'm glad i don't play this note too often lol

HMZ · #8 11-23-2006, 05:00 AM

Your neck my just need an adjustment. It sounds like its too convex (bowed out). Try loosing the wheel on the truss (Counter clockwise) just a little at a time like maybe 1/4 of a turn.

pkr2 · #9 11-23-2006, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMZ

Your neck my just need an adjustment. It sounds like its too convex (bowed out). Try loosing the wheel on the truss (Counter clockwise) just a little at a time like maybe 1/4 of a turn.

I don't agree at all that you should adjust the truss rod to cure a dead spot. Particularly on a bass of MM quality.

A dead spot in the position described is a classic fender type neck problem. It is nothing more or less than the bass vibrating at the frequency of the offending note, but to some degree, out of phase with the strings frequency.

A weight on the headstock can move the dead note slightly in some cases, to a position that interferes less.

The problem doesn't affect basses with a stiffer neck (composite) or carbon fiber stiffeners in the neck to the degree that it does the standard Fender style neck.

Most people end up just living with it because any cure is pretty hit or miss.

steve66 · #10 11-23-2006, 07:37 AM

I would check Ernie Ball MM forum to see if there are any recommendations. Or, give them a call.

HMZ · #11 11-23-2006, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkr2

I don't agree at all that you should adjust the truss rod to cure a dead spot. Particularly on a bass of MM quality.

A dead spot in the position described is a classic fender type neck problem. It is nothing more or less than the bass vibrating at the frequency of the offending note, but to some degree, out of phase with the strings frequency.

A weight on the headstock can move the dead note slightly in some cases, to a position that interferes less.

The problem doesn't affect basses with a stiffer neck (composite) or carbon fiber stiffeners in the neck to the degree that it does the standard Fender style neck.

Most people end up just living with it because any cure is pretty hit or miss.

Your only guessing its a dead spot. Why not try a neck adjustment its easy enough. The string may be hitting the fret and not allowing it to ring out.

pkr2 · #12 11-23-2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMZ

Your only guessing its a dead spot. Why not try a neck adjustment its easy enough. The string may be hitting the fret and not allowing it to ring out.

Because the resonance of the note improved when he put the headstock against the wall. Had fret interference been the problem, there would have been no change.

"Why not try a neck adjustment its easy enough."

Because if he misadjusts the truss rod to try and cure a deadspot, he is very likely to end up with two problems instead of one.

Not to mention the fact that a simple relief measurement is much quicker than a truss rod adjustment.

IMHO

fourstringdrums · #13 11-23-2006, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkr2

Because the resonance of the note improved when he put the headstock against the wall. Had fret interference been the problem, there would have been no change.

"Why not try a neck adjustment its easy enough."

Because if he misadjusts the truss rod to try and cure a deadspot, he is very likely to end up with two problems instead of one.

Not to mention the fact that a simple relief measurement is much simpler than a truss rod adjustment.

IMHO

Couldn't the truss rod be possibly affecting the resonance of the instrument in that one spot? I've heard that sometimes if the rod is pressing against a spot in the neck this can happen and that a very slight tweak, while not enough to really make a noticeable difference in the relief, might help atleast improve the dead spot.

HMZ · #14 11-23-2006, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkr2

Because the resonance of the note improved when he put the headstock against the wall. Had fret interference been the problem, there would have been no change.

IMHO

Yes it would have. I think in a quality instruments like an EBMM
the problem is something simple like a neck adjustment not a dead spot not that it can't happen but it is more unlikely.

pkr2 · #15 11-23-2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HMZ

Yes it would have. I think in a quality instruments like an EBMM
the problem is something simple like a neck adjustment not a dead spot not that it can't happen but it is more unlikely.

The irony is that the EBMM conforms to the same physics that apply to a SX.

If you will do some research on the subject, you can really find some interesting info. Experiments have been done to isolate the truss rod as a problem but have virtually all dismissed the TR as a cause.

One such experiment changed the truss rod from a light to heavy material and no matter the material, the deadspot didn't go away. Other experiments altered the length of the truss rod with the same results. Either of which would have affected the resonant point of the truss rod.

Just one thing, though. How would putting the headstock against the wall possibly affect fret interference? How do you rationalize that assumption?

Thanks for the discussion. We all have our opinions and it wouldn't be any fun if we agreed on everything, would it?

Happy Turkey day, everyone!

pkr2 · #16 11-23-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourstringdrums

Couldn't the truss rod be possibly affecting the resonance of the instrument in that one spot? I've heard that sometimes if the rod is pressing against a spot in the neck this can happen and that a very slight tweak, while not enough to really make a noticeable difference in the relief, might help atleast improve the dead spot.

I've heard the same thing. Of course I've also heard that the action is controlled by the TR. I've heard it said right here on the forum that the TR needs a couple of turns to take care of that intonation problem.

I have set up an awful lot of instruments that had dead spots and not one single one has ever responded to a TR adjustment. Dead spot has always still been right there. That's just my experience and YMMV.

So far as I know, headless basses don't suffer from dead spots so maybe headstock mass has something to do with it. Reinforced by the fact that the Fatfinger works to a degree.

**HeavyDuty** · #17 11-23-2006, 11:34 AM

What about the old-fashioned way - taping a penny or two to the back of the headstock to change the mass, which theoretically will move the resonant freq up or down? If you find adding mass helps, change out the E tuner for a Hipshot D-Tuner.

Alternately, lightening the headstock might do the trick, but buying a set of Ultralites is an expensive way to diagnose the problem.

Put a set of flats on it and don't worry about it!

mat gregory · #18 11-23-2006, 12:06 PM

You guys awesome!!

Man, all these suggestions!! lol. Pretty good discussion going on here!! I've never ever attempted to adjust a bass myself!! I'm too scared incase I put the neck out for good which would be much more expensive than a setup!! I love this bass! The deadspot doesnt bother me much at the moment, though I should be takin it into the shop for a setup so I'll hopefully get it sorted then!! If it doesnt go I'll just live it and call it "charactar"!!

HMZ · #19 11-23-2006, 12:42 PM

So far as I know, headless basses don't suffer from dead spots so maybe headstock mass has something to do with it. Reinforced by the fact that the Fatfinger works to a degree.[/quote]

If headless basses don't suffer from dead spots then why would adding weight to the head stock of a conventional bass work?

HMZ · #20 11-23-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mat gregory

You guys awesome!!

Man, all these suggestions!! lol. Pretty good discussion going on here!! I've never ever attempted to adjust a bass myself!! I'm too scared incase I put the neck out for good which would be much more expensive than a setup!! I love this bass! The deadspot doesnt bother me much at the moment, though I should be takin it into the shop for a setup so I'll hopefully get it sorted then!! If it doesnt go I'll just live it and call it "charactar"!!

If your not comfortable with doing the work your self thats fine. Take it in for a setup and let them know about the problem you have and see what happens and please let us know what the out come is.