My $100 Helmsman 5-string - Truss rod issues

JPrinos · #1 01-17-2010, 07:07 PM

Hello all,

I bought this off of a craigslist ad today for $100:

It's some Chinese manufacturer I think. Can't find any info on it. I like the fact that it has a 2 octave neck, soapbar bridge and P-neck pickups. It is passive.
Here's a summary of what I've found sofar.

The good stuff:
1) The overall look and finish are nice
2) The hardware looks decent. The tuners have a nice feel
3)The fretwork is pretty good

The Bad
1) The relief on the neck is extreme and the action is almost playable but not where I'd like it to be:

2) The truss rod nut (is that what it's called?) is stripped:

I have 2 main questions
1) If I try to remove the nut, can I replace it with a new one? Truss rod physiology was never one of my better subjects.
2) If I'm looking down from the headstock, which way do I turn it to loosen it off?

Thanks in advance,
John

praisegig · #2 01-17-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPrinos

I have 2 main questions
1) If I try to remove the nut, can I replace it with a new one? Truss rod physiology was never one of my better subjects.
2) If I'm looking down from the headstock, which way do I turn it to loosen it off?

Thanks in advance,
John

1. If you have a Dremel, you can use it to cut slots into the nut and use a screw driver to remove.
2. Counterclockwise

JPrinos · #3 01-19-2010, 09:44 AM

Thanks for the info!

I was able to use a screw fastener removal bit and got it out.

Now to find a replacement nut.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lon

1. If you have a Dremel, you can use it to cut slots into the nut and use a screw driver to remove.
2. Counterclockwise

JPrinos · #4 01-24-2010, 05:11 PM

Well, I got the truss rod nut removed and replaced.

The new truss rod nut tightens to a point where it just can't be tightened further and it isn't maxed out.

I prepared a spacer from the old stripped truss rod nut thinking that perhaps the original stripped nut was too short to adjust the neck. The height of the spacer is about 60% of it's threaded length. When I put the spacer on, the bolt doesn't peek through.

Something has seized the truss rod, not allowing it to tighten further

Anyone have a guess as to what's going on in there?
Is there anything else I can try?

Meatrus · #5 01-24-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPrinos

Well, I got the truss rod nut removed and replaced.

The new truss rod nut tightens to a point where it just can't be tightened further and it isn't maxed out.

I prepared a spacer from the old stripped truss rod nut thinking that perhaps the original stripped nut was too short to adjust the neck. The height of the spacer is about 60% of it's threaded length. When I put the spacer on, the bolt doesn't peek through.

Something has seized the truss rod, not allowing it to tighten further

Anyone have a guess as to what's going on in there?
Is there anything else I can try?

I have had this problem before. I would try a smaller washer/spacer first. Another option is to clamp (or have a friend bend) the neck into a backbow, with the truss nut un done, then tighten the nut. If the nut is done up and your neck is back bowed it has probably worked! Then put the strings on, this should get rid of the bow, as the tension will pull it straight, if the backbow is still there, just loosen the nut a bit. It worked for me before.

Edit: the truss probably wont have seized, you have just probably ran out of adjustment.

Tusec · #6 01-24-2010, 06:59 PM

I had a similar situation with my MIM Jazz bass. It wouldn't turn any further but still had a bow. I decided to risk stripping it and made a "cheater bar" by clamping a C-clamp to the handle of my screwdriver to hold onto. The extra torque let me to turn the nut and take out the bow. Apparently the rod wasn't at the end of its range -- it was just a rough spot in the threads or something.

Of course this was a bolt-on Fender and I knew I could easily get another neck if I ruined it. That might not be the case with your bass. It might not be worth the risk.

202dy · #7 01-24-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tusec

I had a similar situation with my MIM Jazz bass. It wouldn't turn any further but still had a bow. I decided to risk stripping it and made a "cheater bar" by clamping a C-clamp to the handle of my screwdriver to hold onto. The extra torque let me to turn the nut and take out the bow. Apparently the rod wasn't at the end of its range -- it was just a rough spot in the threads or something.

Of course this was a bolt-on Fender and I knew I could easily get another neck if I ruined it. That might not be the case with your bass. It might not be worth the risk.

When a properly functioning truss rod will not adjust the fingerboard to proper relief it is the fault of the neck, not the truss rod. The remedy is to flex the neck mechanically so that the rod can do the job of holding the neck in position.

Using a "cheater" to increase the torque applied to the wrench is one of the best ways to twist the end of the rod off.

Not recommended.

Tusec · #8 01-24-2010, 07:28 PM

It was risky, and as a general rule I wouldn't recommend it, certainly not without exhausting all other possibilities first. But, it did work. In my case holding the neck in a backbow wasn't enough.

JPrinos · #9 01-25-2010, 05:29 AM

I applied a new spacer sized to allow the new nut (i.e. shorter than the first one I made) to engage the threads.

The same results as before. The nut tightens to a point where it cannot be tightened further. The relief on the neck is as excessive as it has always been.

I'll play with flexing the neck next.

If anyone else has suggestions, I'd like to hear them.

JPrinos · #10 01-26-2010, 07:20 PM

No joy...

It won't tighten any further and flexing the neck isn't helping at all.

I've resorted to shimming the neck to the point where I can set the action to a slightly lower point than it was originally.

I played it last night at my weekly rehearsal and it wasn't too bad on my fingers.

I'll probably sell the bass off eventually for what I bought it for.

xaxxat · #11 01-27-2010, 07:25 AM

You need to give that truss rod some help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2HGn7c9_uo

JLS · #12 01-27-2010, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPrinos

No joy...

It won't tighten any further and flexing the neck isn't helping at all.

I've resorted to shimming the neck to the point where I can set the action to a slightly lower point than it was originally.

I played it last night at my weekly rehearsal and it wasn't too bad on my fingers.

I'll probably sell the bass off eventually for what I bought it for.

Clamping the neck into a back bow might buy you a little more trussrod adjustment, but don't expect much from a cheap bass.

202dy · #13 01-27-2010, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLS

Clamping the neck into a back bow might buy you a little more trussrod adjustment, but don't expect much from a cheap bass.

Exactly. However, the price of the bass isn't the issue. The qualities of the wood in the neck are what is important. It can go either way. Some exotic high end instruments will fight the process while an inexpensive guitar will respond quickly. It may take a few tries at clamping into a back bow to get the truss rod to hold the new shape.

Pilgrim · #14 01-27-2010, 08:55 AM

If a shim solves the problem (or comes close) then it sounds like it's worth playing with shims...you may get a playable bass that works for you.

JPrinos · #15 01-28-2010, 08:09 AM

I'll try to clamp the neck as specified in the youtube video soon.

If this doesn't work, I'm contemplating trying a couple of things:
1) putting on the lightest gauge strings I can find
2) A completely whacked out idea: applying external bracing on the back of the neck. I'd take the strings off and straighten the neck and then install a carbon fiber strip onto the length of the back of the neck to stiffen it.

Has anyone heard of doing this?

3) Look for a replacement neck (probably near impossible)

202dy · #16 01-28-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPrinos

I'll try to clamp the neck as specified in the youtube video soon.

If this doesn't work, I'm contemplating trying a couple of things:
1) putting on the lightest gauge strings I can find
2) A completely whacked out idea: applying external bracing on the back of the neck. I'd take the strings off and straighten the neck and then install a carbon fiber strip onto the length of the back of the neck to stiffen it.

Has anyone heard of doing this?

3) Look for a replacement neck (probably near impossible)

Dan's method is spot on. The video leaves out a few things. First of all, start the procedure with the truss rod slack. Once the neck is in a back bow, turn the nut until it is tight. After removing the clamping rig, you may find that the relief is still larger than you wanted. Or that it didn't work at all. That's o.k. Do it again. Sometimes it will take a try or six to get it to hold. Sometimes it will take a day or two to tame the neck. Keep at it.

As far as the rest goes:

1. Might help.
2. Swatting at mosquitoes with a baseball bat.
3. Your best bet if all fails.