My luthier disagrees with stretching strings...

NickInMesa · #1 09-17-2009, 02:59 PM

When I put new strings on, I always stretch them, which avoids losing tuning.

Before I found out of the practice I had the issue where the bass would lose tuning all the time for a little while until it set properly.

My luthier before was a guitar guy doing some basses, and he did a good job. I took the bass to a different luthier this time, at a bass specialized shop and he did a great job EXCEPT first song, I go down half a step while playing on the E, about a quarter on the A. Minor loss of tuning on the others.

Tuned. Next song: same thing (I was playing heavy metal stuff, that explains a bit). So right there in the middle of practice I stretched my strings. Which freaked out the singer (he was not aware of the practice). Tuned up: great. No more losing tuning.

So I called the shop and the guy was semi-aggressive in his answer when I asked him if he stretches the strings. Turns out he does not.

He does not believe in it and that I am free to do it on my own if I like it.

So... does that mean everybody else is condemned to sound out of tuned after getting their basses setup by him?

Seriously, what is your take?

Thanks!

()smoke() · #2 09-17-2009, 03:05 PM

my take is that it's unnecessary, but others believe its necessary, and if you like it, go for it, it's your instrument

...i put a great deal of care into stringing my instrument properly, and i think that stretching the strings is actually fatiguing them prematurely, so i don't do it...but there is a good deal of variation in how much people stretch them--some people pull them almost off the instrument, others gently tug

i've never had a problem because of not doing it either with bass or guitar, and i bend the heck out of guitar strings, so just playing for a minute then tuning back up was all i ever did

standupright · #3 09-17-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

my take is that it's unnecessary, but others believe its necessary, and if you like it, go for it, it's your instrument

...i put a great deal of care into stringing my instrument properly, and i think that stretching the strings is actually fatiguing them prematurely, so i don't do it...but there is a good deal of variation in how much people stretch them--some people pull them almost off the instrument, others gently tug

i've never had a problem because of not doing it either with bass or guitar, and i bend the heck out of guitar strings, so just playing for a minute then tuning back up was all i ever did

+1

T-Bird · #4 09-17-2009, 03:20 PM

Hi.

I stretch the strings on all my instruments, that's just something that I've discovered to be necessary.

I do stretch them in a different way than what seems to be the "norm". I NEVER pull them up from the fretboard, but rather bend them between my thumb and fore-/middle finger. Depending of the string brand, it usually takes minimal amount of stretching for the strings to stay in tune, on both guitars and basses.

Just as much -or perhaps even more- the stretching stretches the string, it seats it better on the nut, saddle and around the tuning peg. It's hard to tell how much of the increased tuning stability is a result of which.

Regards
Sam

mstott25 · #5 09-17-2009, 03:23 PM

I'm no expert, but I have broken a few strings in the past by stretching them. I first picked up the practice by a guitar player and I thought it was great. Until I snapped a Thomastik string...which doesn't happen often.

When you buy a pack of DR strings they specifically tell you not to stretch the strings but to tune them to the desired pitch and then let them settle in.

I've heard of builders passing the same advice along to their customers.

I don't see the big deal, I tune each string separately, play for a little bit, tune them again and they're fine.

dmusic148 · #6 09-17-2009, 03:23 PM

On installation, new strings end up with slight curves wherever they transition from curved to straight, or especially where they 'break' at an abruptly angle, as they do at the nut and bridge.
If this is ignored, the curves will straighten during use, which causes detuning.

I have found that if you: 1) push the string around the tuner a bit further than it will sit when tuned, this problem is minimized. This action mostly removes stored slack around the peg.

Also: 2) push down a bit at both sides of the nut, and at the bridge saddles. This helps to make the ends of the string, which need to be straight, straight.

'Global' stretching does this stuff too, but stresses the entire string, which is unnecessary.

Steveaux · #7 09-17-2009, 03:32 PM

I tune my new strings a half-step sharp, noodle on them for a while, re-tune a half step sharp, noodle, tune to pitch, go.

The whole process takes about a twenty minutes. The strings set well and I haven't noticed any reduction in string life.

HogieWan · #8 09-17-2009, 03:32 PM

I don't stretch them - I put them on, bend them at the nut and bridge as dmusic describes, then I play/retune for about 20 mins and all is good.

Lurker79 · #9 09-17-2009, 03:34 PM

The strings will always settle, you might stretch a new one if it was right before a show, but otherwise, I let them live a normal life.

electracoyote · #10 09-17-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

my take is that it's unnecessary, but others believe its necessary, and if you like it, go for it, it's your instrument

^
This.

I put a careful wind on the tuning peg, tune, and go. After a few minutes I re-tune. Never needed more than that. I always gently stretch strings on my guitars, because they really seem to slip alot. But not my basses.

WJGreer · #11 09-17-2009, 03:57 PM

Tightening strings, whether with your hands or on your instrument, only adds tension; there is no discernable effect on length. I do not believe that the cores of guitar or bass strings have any significant degree of elasticity - if they did, we would be seeing the winding become more loose around the core as we tighten the string more. So, I don't think it really hurts to "stretch" your strings, but I also don't think it makes any difference.

walterw · #12 09-17-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Simply stringing up leaves slight curves in the string wherever they 'break' from curved to straight, or make an abrupt angle.

I have found that if you:1) push the string around the tuner a bit further than it will sit when tuned, this problem is minimized. Also: 2) push down a bit at both sides of the nut, and at the bridge saddles. This makes the parts of the string that are supposed to be straight, straight.

we have a winner! we're not so much "stretching the string" as "seating" the ends, and this is how i now refer to the process. low E and B strings especially need this straightening at each end.

we're also taking slack out of the windings around the peg.

walterw · #13 09-17-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WJGreer

Tightening strings, whether with your hands or on your instrument, only adds tension; there is no discernable effect on length. I do not believe that the cores of guitar or bass strings have any significant degree of elasticity - if they did, we would be seeing the winding become more loose around the core as we tighten the string more. So, I don't think it really hurts to "stretch" your strings, but I also don't think it makes any difference.

i have to differ here. tuning up very much involves pulling the string to be a little longer, as does bending it while playing.

my understanding is that steel strings act like steel springs: you can stretch them out or bend them by a certain amount and they will snap back unchanged, but pulling them out or bending them past that point actually deforms the metal permanently.

also, pulling on wound strings too much risks tearing the wrap wire away from the core wire, resulting in that characteristic fuzzy-sounding "bad" string.

so yes, it's good to "cinch up" the string ends, but trying to actually stretch the string itself is going to hurt it.

ehque · #14 09-17-2009, 08:35 PM

Depends on the bass, nut, and bridge design, as well as how you string your bass, really.

I can put on a new set on my Zon and go on stage, and the tuning will not drift.

dmusic148 · #15 09-17-2009, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

my understanding is that steel strings act like steel springs: you can stretch them out or bend them by a certain amount and they will snap back unchanged, but pulling them out or bending them past that point actually deforms the metal permanently.

Correct. Steel is VERY elastic- if you think about it, while tuning up a limp string, it actually stretches quite a bit before coming up to pitch. As long as you don't go TOO far sharp, the core will remain in the elastic mode, meaning it will return completely back to it's original length if tension is removed.
However, going beyond this point causes what's known as plastic deformation. Once this happens, the string is permanently damaged and will NOT return to it's original length.
I say damaged, because even if the core does not break, it will undergo what is known as 'necking.' Necking reduces the diameter of the core wire, and that is a problem, because it allows the wrap wires to relax their previously tight grip on the core wire, and that's a huge tone-killer.

lowendblues · #16 09-17-2009, 08:55 PM

Back when I was just starting out, I read a guitar player interview where Billy Sheehan said that when he changes strings, he tunes each string to pitch, then pulls the string out a bit from the fretboard, then lets it go, "snapping" it back to the neck to release the tension across the nut and stretch the string a bit.

Then he re-tunes his bass....

I've done this ever since, with great results. Take it for what its worth,,,I've recommended it, and its served me well for 30 years.

macmellus · #17 09-17-2009, 09:12 PM

Of course the string lengthens. That's what you're doing when you turn the machine head to tune up. I'd advise only putting a small amount of wind around the machine head 9 and cut off the rest), as the friction caused by a lot of winding takes even more time for the string to settle in.

Zooberwerx · #18 09-17-2009, 09:22 PM

I'm really OCD when I wrap the tuner posts....at least 3 complete wraps and each wrap has to be in contact with the one above it, no gaps. I also depress the string at the nut and bridge saddle to set "witness" points.

Riis

Jonny B · #19 09-17-2009, 09:31 PM

I gently pull my strings to tighten up the wraps (3) on the binding post. Then I "seat" them at the bridge and nut. Never had a problem.

M0ses · #20 09-17-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

i have to differ here. tuning up very much involves pulling the string to be a little longer, as does bending it while playing.

Partially true, but unclear. When you stretch while tuning the length of the string of course has to change, but the length of VIBRATING string is the same - distance between nut and bridge is the same. Just wanted to clear that up.

I say, pulling your strings off the fingerboard and snapping them back, then re-tuning is a bad idea. You're gonna over-stretch the string and damage it. And it's totally unnecessary. Set up your strings, tune em, play a bit, tune em, play some more, and tune em. That's part of changing strings. Why would you change strings RIGHT before a show, anyway? You're asking for trouble. It takes a little time to get strings to set in and tune right; not to mention most people don't even like the tone of their strings until they've been played for a week or two.