My mwah is too slow

[floatingaxe]

I’m hoping someone out there will know the secret to this.

I recently converted my bass to fretless. It sounds great and the mwah is nice and pronounced, but it’s too long for my taste. I’d like the swell to be quicker. I’ve tried adjusting the action, but that reduces the mwah, it does not seem to shorten the swell.
It is an unfinished rosewood board and I use flats.
I’ve posted this in the setup and technique forums since I don’t know what approach to take.

Anybody got any ideas?

[Slowgypsy]

Give us some clues....

What kind/type/model/make bass instrument are you playing?
And the strings you're using are....
And the last time you changed strings was....
And the rig you're playing all this through is....
And all the effects currently in the chain are....

[odin70]

Mayby you can work on your vibrato.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Yes - I would have thought this would be more of a technique issue - so it's quite possible to get more or less mwah through how you use your left hand and right hand can be used to alter this as well?

Try using the tips of your fingers only ..?

[floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by Slowgypsy

Give us some clues....

What kind/type/model/make bass instrument are you playing?
And the strings you're using are....
And the last time you changed strings was....
And the rig you're playing all this through is....
And all the effects currently in the chain are....

The bass is an Ibanez 575 that, as i said, had been defretted.
No effects, straight into a practice amp, no comps or anything.
I use Cromes. I suggested in the Tech forum that maybe the heavier guage of the Cromes take a little longer to settle down than lighter guage flats would, but I've never used any other flats so I have no comparison.

[floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Yes - I would have thought this would be more of a technique issue - so it's quite possible to get more or less mwah through how you use your left hand and right hand can be used to alter this as well?

Try using the tips of your fingers only ..?

Wouldn't that offer less resistance to the strings and lengthen the time it takes for them to swell?
My fingertips are pretty small as it is.

[dougjwray]

My humble opinion is that you're overthinking this, and also giving your gear too much consideration.
I would recommend simply experimenting with all kinds of hand placement and pressure until you get what you're looking for, even if... it takes... a... long... LONG... time...

You might also try plucking a bit sooner.

[TL5]

If lowering the action hasn't worked, try roundwound strings instead of the flats.

the mwah, generally, is where the string is vibrating against the fretboard, adjacent where you have "fretted (for lack of a better word)."
IMHO, it's more pronounced with roundwound strings.

This brings up the issue of, will roundwound strings eat up the fretboard? For me, the tone is more important in that trade-off. YMMV.

[dougjwray]

Originally Posted by TL5

If lowering the action hasn't worked, try roundwound strings instead of the flats.

the mwah, generally, is where the string is vibrating against the fretboard, adjacent where you have "fretted (for lack of a better word)."
IMHO, it's more pronounced with roundwound strings.

This brings up the issue of, will roundwound strings eat up the fretboard? For me, the tone is more important in that trade-off. YMMV.

Great point. If your goal is a Jacoesque "mwah", you'll notice that he had quite a grainy, buzzy tone. (He used roundwound Rotosound Swing Bass strings.)

[deckard]

IMHO, this is strictly a technique issue.

I've been playing fretless for years & I can tell you it takes a LOT of time and experimentation, esp. regarding control of "mwah".
If you just converted the bass and have never played fretless before, you have only begun a long, very interesting and rewarding journey. Experiment and give yourself LOTS of time... and listen to the fretless greats, like You-Know-Who, Manring, Gary Willis, Mark Egan, etc.

One of the things I've found is that using the pad of my finger to "fret" the string expands & lengthens "mwah"; using the very tip shortens it. Using the pad and using cellist-like vibrato and (relatively) slowly increasing the finger pressure lengthens "mwah" even more and affects how the note "blooms" or "swells".

Where you pluck with your right hand affects all of this, too.

Also IMHO: if anything, switching to roundwounds will LENGTHEN the "mwah"; lighter gauge roundwounds will "lengthen" it, too.

JMHO

Edit: I should add that your set-up also has a direct bearing on "mwah" - low action and straight or almost-straight "relief" (a non-issue for me since my virtually straight, graphite-reinforced bass neck has no truss rod).

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

Great point. If your goal is a Jacoesque "mwah", you'll notice that he had quite a grainy, buzzy tone. (He used roundwound Rotosound Swing Bass strings.)

Jaco also said that it was all in your hands...

[dougjwray]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Jaco also said that it was all in your hands...

That's unfortunate news. All this time, I thought that if I bought a Fender "Jaco tribute" bass, I'd sound just like him.

[TL5]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

That's unfortunate news. All this time, I thought that if I bought a Fender "Jaco tribute" bass, I'd sound just like him.

Ha!
Likewise, everyone knows that If Jaco had played a Rickenbacker through a hi-Gain Marshall stack it would have sounded EXACTLY like his bass and amp, cuz they were of no consequence.

[RTL]

I'd say the slow "muah" has almost everything to do with the fact that it's a neck-thru bass. At least in my hands, the notes on a neck-thru fretless always respond and open up slower than I want them to.

[dougjwray]

The bottom line, to me, is that without frets you need to coax music out of the instrument. Actually, you have the wonderful opportunity to coax it out. When I switched back from fretless to fretted, years ago, it felt like the proverbial "shower wearing a raincoat" -- I lost a lot of expressive ability, and with frets it was like "press a button and a note comes out."
I wasn't being glib when I suggested attacking the note earlier if the crest of the sustain arrives too slowly. It's all about phrasing! You can make the initial attack quieter than the loudest part of the "mwah" IF you practice it enough.

[floatingaxe]

Thank you everyone for your input.
I suspected it was more of a technique issue since I read everything I could find in the Setup threads for fretless setup before I did the defret.

The sound of the mwah is fine, it's clear and pronounced. I'm very happy with the whole defret project. I've only found one other person in TB that has defret a BTB and they were very happy as well.
The action is as low as i can get it and still have clear, buzz-free playing.

I'm also not interested in switching to rounds. I switched to flats BEFORE going fretless, and don't plan to go back.

I will experiment some more with right/left fingering styles, and if I figure it out I'll post the 'solution' here.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by floatingaxe

Thank you everyone for your input.
I suspected it was more of a technique issue since I read everything I could find in the Setup threads for fretless setup before I did the defret.

The sound of the mwah is fine, it's clear and pronounced. I'm very happy with the whole defret project. I've only found one other person in TB that has defret a BTB and they were very happy as well.
The action is as low as i can get it and still have clear, buzz-free playing.

I'm also not interested in switching to rounds. I switched to flats BEFORE going fretless, and don't plan to go back.

I will experiment some more with right/left fingering styles, and if I figure it out I'll post the 'solution' here.

FWIW

As a bass technician I offer the advice that you should find a good technican and develop a relation ship with him/her. Fine-tuning an instrument to your preferences is not a one-time deal. The effort is worth it in the long run. But do expect some time doing trial-and error adjustments. A decent tech won't rob you for each and every adjustment. They will work with you to achieve what you desire (within physical limitations).

Damned if I know how you find that technican. They are out there. It's up to you and the efforts you expend.....

[Bruce Lindfield]

But a technician can't play it for you....

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

But a technician can't play it for you....

I can.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

I can.