Neck angle and string height with bolt-on neck

[jakelly]

Does neck angle on a bolt-on style electric bass have an affect on tone? I know neck angle is critical on an acoustic guitar, but on an electric?

I have a Squier CV Jazz that has the strings higher off the body than my Hwy One Jazz, due to the neck angle being tipped back slightly on the Squier, probably at the factory (they often put a small piece of thick sandpaper at the end of the neck pocket for a shim).

This means the bridge saddles and pickups are adjusted higher too. The tone of the Squier kicks booty. The Hwy One is good also, but not as good as the Squier, so I was wondering how much neck angle (and consequently string height from the top of body, saddle height, etc) has to do with tone on an electric.

[Mrdak]

Check this out....... This guy knows his stuff, and should help answer your question.
http://www.nashguitars.com/Setup.htm the 4th small paragraph from the bottom.

[Benjamin Strange]

I would say it has little to no affect on tone for electrics. Neck angle certainly plays a part in how a bass feels and in getting a proper set up, but I can't see how it would affect tone in any appreciable way whatsoever.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by Mrdak

Check this out....... This guy knows his stuff, and should help answer your question.
http://www.nashguitars.com/Setup.htm the 4th small paragraph from the bottom.

that's interesting, because lots of folks (myself included) much prefer strats and teles with less angle, and thus lower bridge saddles, because they feel slinkier with string-bending and make for smoother trem bar action.

on basses, i don't know; tall saddles seem to be fine.

[jakelly]

Originally Posted by Mrdak

Check this out....... This guy knows his stuff, and should help answer your question.
http://www.nashguitars.com/Setup.htm the 4th small paragraph from the bottom.

Interesting. I guess I would have to shim the neck pocket and do a new set up on the Hwy One to see if that improves it.

The guitarist in my band and me were talking about this - why the Squier was so good - and I said, well, its woods and metals and copper wire and stuff all put together and sometimes it all comes together perfectly, whatever the price range of a guitar. But I should have added setup could be a factor also. I've never done anything major setup-wise to the Hwy One. I think I'll dive into it.

[JLS]

"IMHO. Way too many guitarists have no clue how to perform the most basic setups and adjustments. You are doing yourself a huge dis-service by not having these skills. Empower yourself and pickup a book on setups. Not only will you be able to get your guitar playing exactly how you like it, but you will not be at the mercy of high priced guitar techs. The humidity, temperature, aging and many other factors will constantly be changing your guitar. If you do not keep up on it, over time it will play like s**t."

[Mrdak]

Originally Posted by jakelly

Interesting. I guess I would have to shim the neck pocket and do a new set up on the Hwy One to see if that improves it.

The guitarist in my band and me were talking about this - why the Squier was so good - and I said, well, its woods and metals and copper wire and stuff all put together and sometimes it all comes together perfectly, whatever the price range of a guitar. But I should have added setup could be a factor also. I've never done anything major setup-wise to the Hwy One. I think I'll dive into it.

With due respect to Bill Nash, the guitar pick in the pocket is a bit extreme. Just a thin piece of a business card will give you just the right amount of angle without overdoing it. Tone may not change much, but you will be able to intonate the bass a lot better, and easier.
One other thing I've learned over the years.....
In order to keep your setup intact, always keep your bass in a good hard case. When you're finished........ case it. If you leave it on a stand or a wall hanger, it's going to play a little bit differently every day. Especially with fender necks.

[jakelly]

Originally Posted by Mrdak

With due respect to Bill Nash, the guitar pick in the pocket is a bit extreme. Just a thin piece of a business card will give you just the right amount of angle without overdoing it. Tone may not change much, but you will be able to intonate the bass a lot better, and easier.
One other thing I've learned over the years.....
In order to keep your setup intact, always keep your bass in a good hard case. When you're finished........ case it. If you leave it on a stand or a wall hanger, it's going to play a little bit differently every day. Especially with fender necks.

Well, I did the setup job on the Hwy One Jazz. I used a small piece of coarse sandpaper for a shim (no shim was in there from the factory). I took measurements from the Squier - string height, pickup height - tried to make the Hwy One just the same, also tried to make the neck relief identical, and even the same set of strings on each - D'Addario. They now have *virtually* the same setup but the basses still sound way different from each other, which is no surprise I guess. The Hwy One has the BAII bridge, the Squier a "high mass" type bridge (which looks to be nice quality BTW). The Squier has a basswood body, the Hwy One alder. Etc, etc.

[GregDunn]

I have just the opposite problem; I have two (nominally) identical basses, but they were obviously made on widely different dates. On one, the setup is just about perfect for my style; action low enough that I have an easy time playing it, and no buzz unless I really hammer the strings, which I never do.

The problem is that the newer one has noticeably higher action and is harder to play fast. After looking at the truss rod / neck angle, the bridge height, etc. and seeing no differences, I finally compared the neck pockets of the two basses. The neck of the new one sits maybe 1/8 inch higher in the pocket. Whether it's the neck itself being too thick or the pocket too shallow (or who knows, maybe a -very thick- shim from the factory) I don't know because I haven't taken the neck off yet and measured everything. The reason the action is too high is that with the fretboard so high, the nut is also higher; giving the neck some more bow just makes it worse. I can't lower the saddles without getting buzz at the higher frets, and straightening the neck fails because the saddles won't go up high enough; they're maxed out. Hope that makes sense. I've approached this systematically and the setup is OK, just too high, and the only externalmeasurement that differs between the two basses is the neck/fretboard height at the pocket.

I'm not afraid of fixing this myself (I'm an engineer with years of experience in wood and metal working) but I'm not sure what the typical approach is: if there's no shim, should I mill out the pocket or thin the neck? I guess I can take both of them apart and compare measurements, but this will not be an overnight thing and I still might need the other bass for a gig in the meanwhile.

The bass is very inexpensive, so any trip to a luthier would probably cost more than the bass is worth. But I love the way the other one plays, and if I could make them identical it would be awesome.

[walterw]

that's an easy one. straighten the neck, then use a thin shim under the headstock side of the neck pocket to make the neck angle more shallow. this will allow for more string clearance and let you put the saddles back in their right range.

[GregDunn]

I'm sorry, I knew I was going to make a mistake somewhere in that post. What I said wasn't accurate. What I meant to say was that the saddles are as LOW as they can go on this particular bass, and that the action is still too high. Straightening the neck doesn't lower the action anywhere near enough. I should have reread that before posting; it's way off.

I did loosen the screws and work the neck carefully loose, and the end of the neck itself appears to be about 3/32 inch thicker than the "good" bass. It's uniform, as the distance between the fretboard and body is a constant all the way around the pocket. The "good" bass is the same, except the fretboard sits about 3/32 closer because the neck is thinner. Saddles sit a little higher on the "good" bass, and the action is just right.

So, shim the neck under the body end of the pocket to pull the strings closer to the fretboard, and go through the setup again? In the proper sequence, of course.

[()smoke()]

Originally Posted by GregDunn

I'm sorry, I knew I was going to make a mistake somewhere in that post. What I said wasn't accurate. What I meant to say was that the saddles are as LOW as they can go on this particular bass, and that the action is still too high. Straightening the neck doesn't lower the action anywhere near enough. I should have reread that before posting; it's way off.

I did loosen the screws and work the neck carefully loose, and the end of the neck itself appears to be about 3/32 inch thicker than the "good" bass. It's uniform, as the distance between the fretboard and body is a constant all the way around the pocket. The "good" bass is the same, except the fretboard sits about 3/32 closer because the neck is thinner. Saddles sit a little higher on the "good" bass, and the action is just right.

So, shim the neck under the body end of the pocket to pull the strings closer to the fretboard, and go through the setup again? In the proper sequence, of course.

yes, if your saddles are as low as they can go, and you still need lower string height, shim with the thicker part of the shim towards the body end of the neck pocket...i like to use incremental steps if i shim so that there isn't a gap left under the heel of the neck, but it isn't entirely necessary...a full pocket shim would work as well if it's tapered from nothing up to a slight thickness, but a simple strip of a business card will work

as for changing the sound, you'll just have to try and see...buzz feiten likes to shim the neck end of the pocket of his telecasters, he thinks it adds more oomph down low...i've never personally checked this hypothesis though