Neck Rattle

[DoughBoy1917]

Hi all.

Question for the learned among you...and thanks in advance to all that may answer.

Bought a new neck thru bass. There is a rattle emanating from inside the neck, as if there are extra washers that are loose. The rattle doesn't make it out to the amplified sound, and overall is not very loud, but is there if one is playing unamped. It's not an issue of low string action either as I took off the strings, tapped on the neck and still heard the rattle.

The neck itself is bowed, to the point where the action on the first two frets is mighty low (less than 1/8th), but the action on nine and above is more than double or 3/16th. To me it's not that bad but on the border of being an issue as I play fairly hard. That fact is why I even heard the rattle, as when playing lightly, you can't hear it all.

Could the rattle stem from a busted truss rod or possibly a totally loose one? I am not clear on adjusting the truss rod. There are no techs or luthiers near me that have a thought on what to do.

The bass itself is good, lightweight, sounds awesome through my amp, but the rattle is disconcerting.

Is it "normal" for some guitars to have their "quirks".

Suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Vakmere]

Truss rod. Either broken or spun out. Have a tech look at it.

[Rebop]

Probably just a loose truss rod. Try a 1/4 to a 1/2 turn clockwise.

[DoughBoy1917]

Originally Posted by Vakmere

Truss rod. Either broken or spun out. Have a tech look at it.

If I could find one that does something that does more than shrug their shoulders...

Originally Posted by Rebop

Probably just a loose truss rod. Try a 1/4 to a 1/2 turn clockwise.

Tried first an 1/8, then another 1/8. No dice. Am I looking at a factory busted rod?

Thanks for your responses...

[calshands]

Are you sure it is coming from inside the neck? Check out the tuning machines; I had one of mine that was loose and the washer rattled. Try to pluck a note and then touch the tuning key, the post, and the nut/washer that holds them.

Good luck.

[berwick63]

Definitely try to narrow down what it could be like Calshands says. Pluck a string with one hand, and put the other on random different pieces, seeing if anything else is loose. Or give it a once over with a screwdriver, wrench, allen set, and make sure all the components are snug.

[Rebop]

Originally Posted by calshands

Are you sure it is coming from inside the neck? Check out the tuning machines; I had one of mine that was loose and the washer rattled. Try to pluck a note and then touch the tuning key, the post, and the nut/washer that holds them.

Good luck.

+1

Could be anything really.

[DoughBoy1917]

Originally Posted by calshands

Are you sure it is coming from inside the neck? Check out the tuning machines; I had one of mine that was loose and the washer rattled. Try to pluck a note and then touch the tuning key, the post, and the nut/washer that holds them.

Good luck.

Utterly frustrated, I removed the strings and tapped the neck. There's the damned rattle, like a maraca mocking me. Used an allen to put a little pressure on the rod (hold it down) tapped the neck...and the bloody rattle persists. Tightened the truss rod an 1/8 of a turn. Nada. Loosened it a 1/4. Nada.

Methinks somebody left ball bearings in the neck channel or maybe gravel. Or extra washers. Must have been a late Friday afternoon or early Monday morning at the factory.

Thank for the suggestions all. Seriously, I really appreciate the input.

[voodoo92]

i have a silirar rattle one one im moddifing. mine the truss rod aswell but asjusting it doesnt do terribly much to the rattle. and i dont think i could be bother taking it to a tech or luthier because all they would be able to do is say my rods not glued in properly or something...

[Oreomeister365]

Have that rattle on both my basses, and I like to pluck fairly hard with a pick, making it fairly apparent when not plugged in.

Really makes no diff where the truss rod is, and it deff isn't the tuners.

I'd love to get it fixed but it isn't mission critical so I'll live with it until I'm not so lazy...

I'll be watching this thread.

[Vakmere]

What make is this bass?

[slaphappychappy]

Either loose truss rod, if its new the neck probably hasn't been adjusted or loose springs on the bridge which can sound like it is from the neck, just had the spring one myself. The d an g strings. Being the MacGyver I am, I pulled apart 2 pens, stole the springs and linked one each with the spring on the bridges..... Beautiful.

[DoughBoy1917]

Originally Posted by Vakmere

What make is this bass?

Steinberger Spirit XT

Found a guitar tech and brought it to him. He heard it, tightened the truss (still rattles, but it's not so bowed now) and pronounced it to be OK in that the truss itself is not busted, nor damaged apparently. He said this one is a rattler.

[60bass]

Originally Posted by DoughBoy1917

Bought a new neck thru bass.

New as in "brand new"? If so, return it. New as in used but "new" to you? Then we need to know what brand the bass is? This is important because that will tell us if it has a "dual action" or standard truss rod. In other words the dual action rod will correct for both upbow and backbow conditions. Whereas a standard rod only goes one way. See this link for a quick explanation.

Truss rod - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a rattle emanating from inside the neck, as if there are extra washers that are loose. The rattle doesn't make it out to the amplified sound, and overall is not very loud, but is there if one is playing unamped. It's not an issue of low string action either as I took off the strings, tapped on the neck and still heard the rattle.

As mentioned make sure it's not a tuner, bridge, or PU rattle issue. If they check out, the truss rod is, as you suspect probably the culprit. We can do a couple of quick and easy checks to see.

The neck itself is bowed, to the point where the action on the first two frets is mighty low (less than 1/8th), but the action on nine and above is more than double or 3/16th.

The first thing you need to check is how much "relief" is in the neck. That's easy to check. Tune to standard pitch. Capo all strings at the first fret. If you don't have a capo find someway to hold the strings down at the first fret. On the lowest string depress the string at the last fret. Using a feeler gauge (a standard automotive type will do), measure the distance from the top of the 8th fret to the bottom of the low string. Don't know what brand of bass you have but typical measurement for a 9.5 - 12 degree radius neck will be .012. The strings should not be touching the tops of any frets anywhere along the neck except the first where it's capo'd and the last where you're holding it down. If the strings are touching the frets, you don't have enough relief. In other words, the neck is in a backbow condition. The neck is pushing down at the nut and humping the middle up a bit. Assuming the truss rod is OK, you need to loosen up the rod to add some relief. If the relief is too great, the neck is upbowed and you need to tighten the rod.

Does the adjusting nut seem loose like it's not turned tight enough? You should be able to tell if it's loose by how the turning feels (very easy turning). It's not unusual to have to turn it quite a bit if the neck and wood have changed due to changing climate conditions during shipping and storage on a new bass. If you need to adjust, do an 1/8 turn at a time. If at any time the nut feels real tight STOP turning. You don't want to strip the threads or break the rod. Keep adjusting and checking relief till it comes into specs. It might take a couple of days for it to settle in, so check it for a few days.

To me it's not that bad but on the border of being an issue as I play fairly hard. That fact is why I even heard the rattle, as when playing lightly, you can't hear it all.

You want to get this sorted out now so you don't have issues down the road.

Could the rattle stem from a busted truss rod or possibly a totally loose one?

Yes but I'm guessing that the rod is loose and needs snugging up. Honestly if the bass is new, I can't see a busted rod although I've seen stripped ones. I bought a Schecter C4 that had a bad spot on the threads for the rod nut. I had to return it.

I am not clear on adjusting the truss rod. There are no techs or luthiers near me that have a thought on what to do.

Follow the instructions above. Take your time and go slowly. Neck adjustments are going to be a routine part of your bass maintenance, so might as well learn how. BTW if a luthier tells you he doesn't know what to do, run like hell because he ain't a luthier. This is basic adjustment stuff here. After you get the neck relief set, move on to string height and intonation.

The bass itself is good, lightweight, sounds awesome through my amp, but the rattle is disconcerting.

Is it "normal" for some guitars to have their "quirks".

Suggestions are greatly appreciated.

+1 on the rattle. That should not be there. A lot of my basses over the years have had quirks but never rattles in the neck. That's not normal. It would help if I knew the brand of bass. If you don't want to post it here, shoot me a PM.

Hope this helps you. If you need more help, post up or PM me.

Keep Low

EDIT - didn't see the post where you mentioned getting it squared away. It came through while I was typing. I've been playin for over 35 years and don't buy off the "rattler" explanation. Keep a close eye and ear on that neck just in case.

[darkstorm]

Originally Posted by DoughBoy1917

Steinberger Spirit XT

Found a guitar tech and brought it to him. He heard it, tightened the truss (still rattles, but it's not so bowed now) and pronounced it to be OK in that the truss itself is not busted, nor damaged apparently. He said this one is a rattler.

Ok, yes once in awhile a neck will have something in it that rattles a little. Neck is fine, trussrod is fine, rattle isnt from bridge, tuners, is from neck. Your prob right in that theres just a lose peice of something unimportant. Ive sometimes wondered if its from somewhere that good truss rod is touching wood irregularity or something that makes the rattle. Ive had a couple couple guitars/basses over the yrs that had this. But since I dont play em unplugged, its never bothered me other then occassionally curiosity of what is it? Lol.

[EricssonB]

Out from the other side of the park...

Probably wouldn't hurt to X-ray it. Bribe a cute X-ray tech with lunch?

[DoughBoy1917]

Originally Posted by 60bass

New as in "brand new"? If so, return it. New as in used but "new" to you? Then we need to know what brand the bass is? This is important because that will tell us if it has a "dual action" or standard truss rod. In other words the dual action rod will correct for both upbow and backbow conditions. Whereas a standard rod only goes one way. See this link for a quick explanation.

Truss rod - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



As mentioned make sure it's not a tuner, bridge, or PU rattle issue. If they check out, the truss rod is, as you suspect probably the culprit. We can do a couple of quick and easy checks to see.



The first thing you need to check is how much "relief" is in the neck. That's easy to check. Tune to standard pitch. Capo all strings at the first fret. If you don't have a capo find someway to hold the strings down at the first fret. On the lowest string depress the string at the last fret. Using a feeler gauge (a standard automotive type will do), measure the distance from the top of the 8th fret to the bottom of the low string. Don't know what brand of bass you have but typical measurement for a 9.5 - 12 degree radius neck will be .012. The strings should not be touching the tops of any frets anywhere along the neck except the first where it's capo'd and the last where you're holding it down. If the strings are touching the frets, you don't have enough relief. In other words, the neck is in a backbow condition. The neck is pushing down at the nut and humping the middle up a bit. Assuming the truss rod is OK, you need to loosen up the rod to add some relief. If the relief is too great, the neck is upbowed and you need to tighten the rod.

Does the adjusting nut seem loose like it's not turned tight enough? You should be able to tell if it's loose by how the turning feels (very easy turning). It's not unusual to have to turn it quite a bit if the neck and wood have changed due to changing climate conditions during shipping and storage on a new bass. If you need to adjust, do an 1/8 turn at a time. If at any time the nut feels real tight STOP turning. You don't want to strip the threads or break the rod. Keep adjusting and checking relief till it comes into specs. It might take a couple of days for it to settle in, so check it for a few days.



You want to get this sorted out now so you don't have issues down the road.



Yes but I'm guessing that the rod is loose and needs snugging up. Honestly if the bass is new, I can't see a busted rod although I've seen stripped ones. I bought a Schecter C4 that had a bad spot on the threads for the rod nut. I had to return it.



Follow the instructions above. Take your time and go slowly. Neck adjustments are going to be a routine part of your bass maintenance, so might as well learn how. BTW if a luthier tells you he doesn't know what to do, run like hell because he ain't a luthier. This is basic adjustment stuff here. After you get the neck relief set, move on to string height and intonation.



+1 on the rattle. That should not be there. A lot of my basses over the years have had quirks but never rattles in the neck. That's not normal. It would help if I knew the brand of bass. If you don't want to post it here, shoot me a PM.

Hope this helps you. If you need more help, post up or PM me.

Keep Low

EDIT - didn't see the post where you mentioned getting it squared away. It came through while I was typing. I've been playin for over 35 years and don't buy off the "rattler" explanation. Keep a close eye and ear on that neck just in case.

Thank you very much for the primer. It's funny how one can read articles and texts on how to do stuff and they come across like a foreign language and then someone spells it out just slightly differently and you suddenly get it one hundred percent. Thank you.

The guy I took it to is a jack-of-all-trades-related-to-music kind of guy who has some experience adjusting a multitude of "music" items. Hey, it's the best I've got out in the sticks. As I'd mentioned, he said it's OK, but "bassed" on your and everyone else's sage advice here I'm gonna get another one. Your "it isn't normal" comment is the clincher. I play unamped often, which is why I play hard, but that comment rattles in my head like this neck. And although there may in fact be nothing wrong NOW, it may develop issues later, as it has a known problem.

It's a cliche because its true: "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

Thank you all. I am glad to be a member of this "community".

[60bass]

Originally Posted by DoughBoy1917

Thank you very much for the primer. It's funny how one can read articles and texts on how to do stuff and they come across like a foreign language and then someone spells it out just slightly differently and you suddenly get it one hundred percent. Thank you.

The guy I took it to is a jack-of-all-trades-related-to-music kind of guy who has some experience adjusting a multitude of "music" items. Hey, it's the best I've got out in the sticks. As I'd mentioned, he said it's OK, but "bassed" on your and everyone else's sage advice here I'm gonna get another one. Your "it isn't normal" comment is the clincher. I play unamped often, which is why I play hard, but that comment rattles in my head like this neck. And although there may in fact be nothing wrong NOW, it may develop issues later, as it has a known problem.

It's a cliche because its true: "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

Thank you all. I am glad to be a member of this "community".

Hopefully you bought from a reputable online dealer like MF, Music 123, or one that has a good return policy. Make sure you let them know that the bass has a "defect". That way they should cover your return shipping charges and insurance. Let them know that the truss rod rattles in the neck even after you adjusted it and you're concerned about issues down the road.

After seeing that your bass is a Steinberger Spirit XT, I googled it up. Over on the Gibson forum for the Steinberger Spirit series others were complaining about QC issues with the basses and guitars in that product line. Link below.

Spirit Collection - Gibson Guitar Board

Think about it and consider if you want to take another chance with the Spirit XT series. IMO there are other choices from multiple brands in that price range that have been in production for a long time and usually have no issues. The Ibanez SRA300 and 500 series, SRX350, and the ATK come to mind. There are some Peavey's, Deans, and Schecter's in that range too. Sure, I had a Schecter with a messed up rod too but that's not the norm for their stuff. It's always been good for me in the past and Schecter has good customer service.

The Fender Squier CV series are pretty decent but judging from the many I've played at GC and Sam Ash, the QC varies on those, namely in the quality of the fretwork. I wouldn't buy one without playing it first.

In the end though the choice is yours to make and good luck. Let us know how you make out.

Keep low

[DoughBoy1917]

So. Back it went.

And because I read the Gibson board, stubborn old me rolled the dice and got another one.

My justification? Ned's original design created a lightweight, fun little bass to play that my aging, aching lower back really, really appreciates. And, to my shock and surprise, the neck was as supple and fast to move around on as is a Fender Jazz's neck, which is what I prefer.

So here was the second one. And it rattled. But just a little.

As I had already ordered them, I put on my preferred LaBella flats, tightened the neck a little, adjusted the intonation, string height…(no good techs around…I'm flying by the seat o' my pants here) and "viola!" the neck don't rattle no mo. Even better, the sound with the flats is positively outstanding through my GK. Has a P's balls and a J's finesse, but it's all its own sound. Unique, rich and downright fierce. Not weak and comical like the sound the factory strings produced.

Next, I'll be throwing on the Synapse strap hook just for good measure. I just might order the hard shell case for it as I'm tired of people spilling beer and other "fluids" on my gig bags and having the mess seep through. Maybe it's the way I play.

And if and when I can spare the coin, or should I suddenly, miraculously develop Flea, Sting or Bootsy caliber chops, I'll hunt down one of the original 1979-1984 L's, but for now this will do.

I can't remember where I read this, but if it's a graphite truss rod in there, (Could it be? At this price point?) it may rattle a little because of the nature of the material. Any truth in that?

Whatever else, it is what it is and all's well that ends well. And again, my sincerest thanks to all who answered here.

[slams]

Originally Posted by berwick63

Definitely try to narrow down what it could be like Calshands says. Pluck a string with one hand, and put the other on random different pieces, seeing if anything else is loose. Or give it a once over with a screwdriver, wrench, allen set, and make sure all the components are snug.

+1 on this. I had a similar rattle that was not due to string vibration and sounded like a loose washer. After tightening my truss rod a little and getting no change, I just went over every possible screw/nut on the bass and it turned out to be a slightly loose nut on the B string tuning head. It must have come loose when I was stringing it.