Neck Shim for lowered action?

[alangoldstein]

if you loosen the truss, wouldnt the action get higher?
cause the neck will weaken in its counter to the pull ?

if you tighten the rod the action gets lower i thought ? cuz its bringing the neck into a more strenghtened psotion to counter act the pull of strings! its that pull that is pulling hte neck out and making the strings go yonder.

unless im loosing my mind here being half awake....


i would check if shimming would ruin the tone
as related to body to neck....

[Dan1099]

Originally Posted by 202dy

All measurements and setups are to be done in playing position. Any adjustments made in the work position are subject to change when the instrument is held in playing position. Playing position allows the tech to make the adjustments accurately. It is not picking nits. It is essential to performing a correct setup. It is one of the differences between the dilettante and the professional.

And a professional should be very nitpicky. Chill out. I do all mine like that, too! But for a first time set up, that can all be a little overwhelming.

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by chutsk10

I recently defretted a Jazz Bass and now I find I can;t lower the action enarly enough, my saddles are as low as can go and I've got nearly a cm height at the 12th fret.

I think i read somewhere a shim can be used somewhere on the neck, does anyone know of this procedure?

Is there any other way to lower the action in my case?

Shim the bridge or shim the neck; that's your choices. The neck has to be kept at the appropriate angle to the body, so it's not just a case of jamming a hunk of anything in there. Depending on how much height you need to lose, the shim may have to be bevelled to get the right neck-angle back. It's not a job for amateurs; get a luthier to do it. AND the nut has to be recut.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Ya, you can take a very thin piece of shimming material (broken single edge razor blades are my favorite, or you can use a matchbook cover or a thin piece of wood), and put it in the base of the neck pocket.

Wood is best; your bass is made of wood, isn't it? Unless you're shimming the bridge, then I would probably use metal.

Originally Posted by louieeadg

STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING!!! Now, while what the other post said is TRUE about making a shim. That's not what you need my friend. I've converted 2 basses from fretted to fretless and the same thing happened to me the first time I did it. All you need to do is loosen the neck. When you take frets out of a bass you weaken the neck. That's why Jaco epoxied his fretboard, to make it stronger. Just loosen your neck, and make sure you use some really good wood glue on those lines where the fret used to be! You don't have to epoxy it but it will make the neck stronger. And unless its your el cheapo bass you absolutely don't care about, use flatwounds or tapewounds on it so you don't eat the wood on the neck...

Just speaking from experience,
cheers

That's just plain silly. I play a $6,000.00 MTD, and it came with a butt-nekkid wood fingerboard, and I use the roundwounds it came with. It eats your fingerboard a little teeny bit; yes you can see it. OMG! Once every 6 months or so, if you play a lot, sand the fingerboard down gently with 600 grit or finer sandpaper on a flat snading block after straightening your neck, staight up and down the whole surface without stopping, and lightly; buff with superfine (0000 or sometimes called XXXX) steel wool, finish with good fingerboard oil, and voila. You'll lose a couple of thousandths of the fingerboard every 6 months or so. In about 60 years, you may need to replace the fingerboard, just like they have done with multi-million dollar Stradivari violins, cellos, ancient string basses, etc.

Also, do not loosen your neck joint, that's just nuts, you'll get no sound transfer between the body and the neck, and your sound will be dramatically affected. Not to mention tuning, action, intonation, and structural instability.

BTW, roundwounds will eat into the epoxy as well, and you'll have to sand that just like the fingerboard, and it will eventually have to be replaced. Flatwounds also eat the fingerboard eventually; it's just a fact of life.

If you like the sound of strings on wood, keep your fingerboard plain. If you like bright, clacky string sound, with possibly a teeny bit more sustain, go with epoxy. If you like rounds, use them; if you like flats, use them. Fingerboard wear is NOT that dramatic. It should be a decision based on sound.

This is why I tell my students NOT to take the frets out of a cheaper bass. It often opens a big can of worms, requires professional help, the results are not predictable, and it winds up costing more than selling the bass stock and buying a factory fretless. I've done it a few times, my students have as well over the years, it's usually a nightmare, and I personally won't do it again, based on my 30+ years of experience.

And I'm a fretless player.

Cheers,
Cameron

[louieeadg]

What is some good fingerboard oil?

[202dy]

Originally Posted by Dan1099

And a professional should be very nitpicky. Chill out. I do all mine like that, too! But for a first time set up, that can all be a little overwhelming.

Teaching a person an incorrect process so as not to overwhelm them makes absolutely no sense. It does not matter whether it is their first or their hundredth time. Everyone should be taught a process from start to finish without omitting information that is critical to their success.

Logically, an aspiring tech that is taught the wrong way first, will naturally end up with a finished product that will be less than satisfactory. This student is now confused because they paid attention to the instructions but it did not turn out right because it could not unless they made a mistake while executing the incorrect process. Continuing logically, the next step is to inform the new student that since they have experience in making adjustments in accordance to faulty advice they will now be taught how to do it correctly.

Now, rather than overwhelmed, they are frustrated and angry.

[Scott in Dallas]

Compression style frets dont add to the strength of the neck, but they do add to the STIFFNESS of the neck in varying degrees, especially when compared to a board with a bunch of unfilled slots, which is basically kerfing and is designed specifically to flex. If a neck is designed to have frets in it, removing the frets will introduce a bow that you might not be able to remove without either filling the slots with strips of hardwood or without completely re-leveling the board.

Like others have said, if you start messing with the nut and the neck angle now you are just going to introduce more problems rather than addressing the one you have. You've opened a can of worms by doing this, and shortcuts aren't going to do anything but leave you with an instrument you hate.

[jeffhigh]

when you defret a bass you almost always need to shim the neck because you have removed the height of the frets.
When you add a badass you often need to shim the neck because of the thicker baseplate on the bridge.
You have done both of these, you need to shim

[chutsk10]

Just thoguht I'd throw it out there that I fixed the problem long ago, filed the nit a little more, got the neck "perfectly" straight and filed down the saddles in the BadAss2 a little more. All is good, no neck shimming had to occur.

This is why I tell my students NOT to take the frets out of a cheaper bass. It often opens a big can of worms, requires professional help, the results are not predictable, and it winds up costing more than selling the bass stock and buying a factory fretless.

I'm sure problems frequently occur when peopel do the defret, but mine worked near flawlessly and with some work, it feels better than some fretless' ive played in stores and It's got some real nice mwah to it.

[PilbaraBass]

I don't know why this thread got so bent on going for a neck shim.

you did the correct thing...it all starts at the nut...then the relief has to be correct (no bananas)...

you could have shimmed, possibly, instead of altering the bridge more...but that would only show up as necessary AFTER you did the first two things...

good work...I think that if a person is game, defretting a cheap bass is a great tool for learning setups...

me? I learned setups by fixing my wishbass (same thing )...and I'm even able to do a little bit of fretwork, now, as well, thanks to another cheap bass of mine...my best two playing basses now cost me $150 and $80 (AU) respectively

bring on the cheapies...I love 'em

[chutsk10]

you could have shimmed, possibly, instead of altering the bridge more

I guess that is true, but i read somewhere that you should file down the saddle grooves to half the string height, and i was only at about 1/4 so I had room to take them lower. (as long as the information I read on it was correct )

[alangoldstein]

ive built a few basses from parts. i personally wouldnt shim the neck.

also, if its neck thru, or set neck ( glued) u cant shim anything.

u can always get a new nut blank, a set of files, and the right bridge....

have the neck adjusted truss wise.

good luck .

also sometimes not having the super lowest action is a good thing for tone! believe it or not. especially if you hit cold weather climates, or have to drop tune
with a band.

also graphite necks are cool by me too.

anyway, keep funken!

[PilbaraBass]

Originally Posted by alangoldstein

ive built a few basses from parts. i personally wouldnt shim the neck.

also, if its neck thru, or set neck ( glued) u cant shim anything.

u can always get a new nut blank, a set of files, and the right bridge....

have the neck adjusted truss wise.

good luck .

also sometimes not having the super lowest action is a good thing for tone! believe it or not. especially if you hit cold weather climates, or have to drop tune
with a band.

also graphite necks are cool by me too.

anyway, keep funken!

he's fixed his problem...that's what we're discussing now...and no neck shim was required...which is cool...