Neck shim on Squier CV 60's PBass - wow!

[Britbonic]

I acquired a nice fiesta red CV 60's bass a few weeks back. After changing strings and installing new pots, started tweaking with truss rod and saddles to get the action where I want it. Got it really, really close but still not as nice as my excellent AV57 PBass. Starting thinking about shims and came across this:

http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=49897

Don't know if it's cool to crosspost from another bass forum but this tutorial is the best I've found. I followed this instructions exactly and it literally took 10 minutes. Great tip in here about using capo when taking neck off so you can keep strings on.

In any event, the shim totally did the trick. When measuring the string height, noticed that it started to get higher above the 12 fret, hence the idea about the shim. Now it's nice and straight all the way to last fret. Little saddle tweak and good to go. Now it plays just as I want it to!

[stantonl]

Great link! Very useful information. Thanks for sharing.

[C.Linton]

Will this work with a stock Squier bridge as a means to help lower the action? Or does this only pertain to replacement bridges which have thicker base plates like the
Badass II as mentioned.

[Britbonic]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

Will this work with a stock Squier bridge as a means to help lower the action? Or does this only pertain to replacement bridges which have thicker base plates like the
Badass II as mentioned.

The use of a shim is independent of type of bridge used and is a popular one with bolt-on neck instruments like Fenders. Though popular, best first to take more basic steps before using. Assuming the fret are in relatively good shape and even, start with truss rod and bridge height adjustments. If the neck is relatively straight or has some slight relief and the action is still not where you want, shim may be the answer, especially if action height starts to rise above the 12th fret.
There's great info on this later in the posted thread.

There are many factors the affect action and playability - straightness of neck, quality of fretwork, nut height, etc. Ideally the neck pocket and neck are a perfect fit and bottom of the pocket and end of neck are exactly even. It not, that's usually where the shims help.

[C.Linton]

Well, with my limited skills, I've been able to get the neck relief and string height to Fender's own specs as stated on their website's setup guide (.012" relief, string height 6/64" at the 17th fret on the E string, 5/64" on the G. ) At this point, I'm wondering if I will be able to get it any better than spec either by shimming as in the posted thread, or maybe I should just take it to a pro for a setup. Or will a pro be able to get it any better than that, for that matter?
Oh ,and as far as I can tell the neck/pocket fit is just as tight as it can possibly get.

[Britbonic]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

Well, with my limited skills, I've been able to get the neck relief and string height to Fender's own specs as stated on their website's setup guide (.012" relief, string height 6/64" at the 17th fret on the E string, 5/64" on the G. ) At this point, I'm wondering if I will be able to get it any better than spec either by shimming as in the posted thread, or maybe I should just take it to a pro for a setup. Or will a pro be able to get it any better than that, for that matter?
Oh ,and as far as I can tell the neck/pocket fit is just as tight as it can possibly get.

Assuming it plays OK - no major buzzing or fretting out - those are pretty good numbers though Fenders tend to be set a little higher out of the factory so can usually be adjusted some.

What is it that you don't like about the current setup? Is the action too high? Do the strings buzz if you lower the saddles? You might want to first try tightening the truss rod to make the neck a little straighter and take out some relief. Only a 1.4 turn at a time and it's best to wait a day or so for the neck to settle to make other adjustments. And of course you'll have to readjust saddle heights afterward.

Also, are your string heights matching the radius of the neck? Vintage style Fenders are 7.25, more recent ones usually 9.5. Matching the heights to the radius makes a big difference in the feel of the strings when you play. If you don't have some kind of radius gauge you can kinda eyeball it looking at the back of the bridge.

One way to see if a shim would work is to measure the height at the 12th fret and then again at the 20th or 21st and see if there is a big difference. If so, a small shim in the neck pocket might help but I'd only go this route after doing the above.

These set up skills are great to have, especially if you have multiple instruments and are comfortable working on your bass. Alternatively, a pro setup is usually worth it if you know a good tech. They often find other things that are harder to fix, such as having a couple frets higher than the others that can impact action. Most will tell you if they can make the instrument play better before you commit to having a set up down.

[dave_bass5]

Originally Posted by Britbonic

I acquired a nice fiesta red CV 60's bass a few weeks back. After changing strings and installing new pots, started tweaking with truss rod and saddles to get the action where I want it. Got it really, really close but still not as nice as my excellent AV57 PBass. Starting thinking about shims and came across this:

http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=49897

Don't know if it's cool to crosspost from another bass forum but this tutorial is the best I've found. I followed this instructions exactly and it literally took 10 minutes. Great tip in here about using capo when taking neck off so you can keep strings on.

In any event, the shim totally did the trick. When measuring the string height, noticed that it started to get higher above the 12 fret, hence the idea about the shim. Now it's nice and straight all the way to last fret. Little saddle tweak and good to go. Now it plays just as I want it to!

I've also shimmed my CV Jazz for the same reason, to get the action a bit more consistent above the 12th. I used that guide above a couple of years ago to do my Fender P5 (im in that thread) for the same reason. I expect ill also do it to my new 70's classic.
While i can easily get the action how i like it (2mm at 12th fret) i do find it off putting when i see the gap get bigger higher up.
I agree, that capo idea is a good one and the only reason i own a capo.

[Britbonic]

Originally Posted by dave_bass5

I've also shimmed my CV Jazz for the same reason, to get the action a bit more consistent above the 12th. I used that guide above a couple of years ago to do my Fender P5 (im in that thread) for the same reason. I expect ill also do it to my new 70's classic.
While i can easily get the action how i like it (2mm at 12th fret) i do find it off putting when i see the gap get bigger higher up.
I agree, that capo idea is a good one and the only reason i own a capo.

Agree it is off putting to see the gap get bigger above the 12th fret but nice to know it can be fixed pretty easily. Also in part points out one of the key differences in the cost of instruments and the differences between a $300 Squire and a $2500 Sadowsky. Aside from materials and local labor costs, a big part of that attention to details like the fit of the neck in the pocket. Assuming the lower part of the neck is flat and the neck pocket is cut properly there should be no need for a shim and you should be able to get the action as low as you like. In the process of setting up the CV, I took measurements from my Mike Lull and 57AV PBass, both of which have fantastic action. In both cases there was little difference in string height from the 12 to the 20th fret so knew that the CV wasn't quite right. It's funny that they usually seem to be off by the same business card height.

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by Britbonic

Assuming it plays OK - no major buzzing or fretting out - those are pretty good numbers though Fenders tend to be set a little higher out of the factory so can usually be adjusted some.

What is it that you don't like about the current setup? Is the action too high? Do the strings buzz if you lower the saddles? You might want to first try tightening the truss rod to make the neck a little straighter and take out some relief. Only a 1.4 turn at a time and it's best to wait a day or so for the neck to settle to make other adjustments. And of course you'll have to readjust saddle heights afterward.

I want to get the action as low as posssible.There is some buzzing (not a lot), I know some is inevitable, but if I can get the action lower than what it is, without an increase in buzz, that would be my goal.
I've been carefully tweaking (as you say, no more than a quarter turn each time.) the truss rod on and off since I got the thing two weeks ago. As I said, it is currently at .012",

Also, are your string heights matching the radius of the neck? Vintage style Fenders are 7.25, more recent ones usually 9.5. Matching the heights to the radius makes a big difference in the feel of the strings when you play. If you don't have some kind of radius gauge you can kinda eyeball it looking at the back of the bridge.

I have a radius guage (from Stew-Mac)for the Squier, it's a 9.5". I've been matching the radius as I go.

One way to see if a shim would work is to measure the height at the 12th fret and then again at the 20th or 21st and see if there is a big difference. If so, a small shim in the neck pocket might help but I'd only go this route after doing the above.

I'll try that.

These set up skills are great to have, especially if you have multiple instruments and are comfortable working on your bass. Alternatively, a pro setup is usually worth it if you know a good tech. They often find other things that are harder to fix, such as having a couple frets higher than the others that can impact action. Most will tell you if they can make the instrument play better before you commit to having a set up down.

Yeah I'm trying to learn how to do a proper setup (I even got a Stew-Mac setup kit) on my Squier rather than my MIA Jazz, it's one reason I got the thing in the first place. I figure it's a good skill set to have.

[Britbonic]

You're on the right path and gave the right tools. It's a great skill to be able to do your own setups. If you're careful it's pretty hard to break anything that can't be fixed. I'd say continue to tweak based on above suggestions and if you can't get it the way you want then bring to a pro.

[Growly Lytes]

Great i have a 35 year old Shergold Modulator Bass MIE. IT has no trussrod just a solid maple neck & the action has always been high but seeing this thread im going to shim it.