New strings but having intonation problems

CollinR · #1 08-25-2010, 09:15 PM

So I just put new strings on my 4 string going from 45-105 to 55-110 and everything is working great except my intonation on my low e string. I'm not pro at setting up a guitar but it looked fairly simply to adjust the intonation. My other three strings are fine but its seems that ever note besides the low E on the string play a tad sharp all the way up the the twelfth fret E. I tried adjusting the saddle away from the pick-up as instructed until it changed but I got nothing. I went quite a noticeable way back and still no change. Any ideas of what could make all the notes slightly sharp?

Chrisk-K · #2 08-25-2010, 09:17 PM

Move the E saddle farther back and see if the 12th fretted note = 12th harmonic.

tedsalt · #3 08-25-2010, 09:21 PM

http://www.tunemybass.com/bass_setup...ntonation.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Set-Your-Guitar's-Intonation

lbwdog · #4 08-25-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollinR

I tried adjusting the saddle away from the pick-up

You do mean lengthwise and not height don't you?

The note fretted at the 12th fret should equal the open string or the 12th fret harmonic. So, lengthening the string should bring it down to correct pitch. Sometimes, if the pickup pole is too close to the string, it can cause some tonal aberrations, so lower your pickup height a little if the problem persists.

It could also be a defective string.

CollinR · #5 08-25-2010, 09:33 PM

Shouldn't the twelfth fretted not be a E?

Let me rephrase whats going on. When I tune my E string to E all the other frets on the E string are sharp by a bit. So F is slightly sharp and F# and G etc. They all read a bit uniformly above where they should be. Now when I adjust the saddle away from the pickups it seems to not do anything at all. Maybe minutely. My three other stings are all fine

CollinR · #6 08-25-2010, 09:34 PM

Yes I am talking lengthwise. I have never heard of a defective string but it may be. I also have detuned to D with it a few times. Could that have caused it to create this problem?

CollinR · #7 08-25-2010, 09:35 PM

And another thing is if I tune the string to the twelfth fret E then all the frets down the board are in tune but the open e is slightly flat.

lbwdog · #8 08-25-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollinR

I have never heard of a defective string but it may be.

It's rare, but I've had a couple over the last forty years.

Quote:

I also have detuned to D with it a few times. Could that have caused it to create this problem?

I doubt it. Did you try lowering your pickup?

Gearhead17 · #9 08-25-2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedsalt

http://www.tunemybass.com/bass_setup...ntonation.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Set-Your-Guitar's-Intonation

Hey! Thanks dude! I was wondering how to improve my intonation! To the OP, read carefully!

CollinR · #10 08-25-2010, 09:47 PM

[quote=lbwdog;9615615]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollinR

It's rare, but I've had a couple over the last forty years.
I doubt it. Did you try lowering your pickup?

No i didnt would this affect it? I thought adjusting the pick up just affects volume? My action is pretty high so my pickup arent that close to the strings.

walterw · #11 08-25-2010, 10:19 PM

is the string high at the nut? (that is, far from the first fret?) that will make all the fretted notes sharp, especially the lower ones.

JLS · #12 08-25-2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollinR

So I just put new strings on my 4 string going from 45-105 to 55-110 and everything is working great except my intonation on my low e string. I'm not pro at setting up a guitar but it looked fairly simply to adjust the intonation. My other three strings are fine but its seems that ever note besides the low E on the string play a tad sharp all the way up the the twelfth fret E. I tried adjusting the saddle away from the pick-up as instructed until it changed but I got nothing. I went quite a noticeable way back and still no change. Any ideas of what could make all the notes slightly sharp?

Push down on the string right where it goes over the saddle, to give the string a "witness point". If you're lucky, this will work for you.

Bad strings aren't that uncommon, either.

lbwdog · #13 08-25-2010, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

Did you try lowering your pickup?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollinR

No i didnt would this affect it? I thought adjusting the pick up just affects volume? My action is pretty high so my pickup arent that close to the strings.

As I stated in post #4....

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

Sometimes, if the pickup pole is too close to the string, it can cause some tonal aberrations, so lower your pickup height a little if the problem persists.

A strong magnet close to the string can cause it to do some weird things, sometimes resulting in pitch or harmonic problems. Not saying that's what it is, but it would be one thing I would check.
When you tune your open E, is the harmonic at the 12th fret in tune also? If so, and it can't be adjusted out by any of the methods described above, then it almost has to be a defective string (unless your neck and/or frets are way out of whack).
__________________

lbwdog · #14 08-25-2010, 11:59 PM

One thing I just thought of....Going to a heavier gauge E string, the nut slot may be too small, which might cause an intonation problem. (Just another idea.)

OOZMAN · #15 08-26-2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollinR

And another thing is if I tune the string to the twelfth fret E then all the frets down the board are in tune but the open e is slightly flat.

Yeah I had this problem before, when I bought a cheapo guitar. Turned out to be the nut, it was too high and when I fretted a low fret (1-12th) it acted like a bend, it sharpened the note a bit. This happened all the way till about the 12th fret. But this wouldn't make sense if your bass only went out of intonation after you put the new strings on... so I dunno.

How high is your nut?

EDIT: lbwdog beat me to it

CollinR · #16 08-26-2010, 12:21 AM

I dont have a measuring device on me but the string does sit slightly higher than the nut but it is completely flush with the bottom of it so its not like there is a wierd gap. All of the other strings sit completely in the groove while the e is slightly exposed. The harmonic stays in tune with the open e string so when the open E is tuned properly the twelfth fret harmonic is proper as well and when I tune the 12th fret to e the harmonic goes flat.

OOZMAN · #17 08-26-2010, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollinR

I dont have a measuring device on me but the string does sit slightly higher than the nut but it is completely flush with the bottom of it so its not like there is a wierd gap. All of the other strings sit completely in the groove while the e is slightly exposed. The harmonic stays in tune with the open e string so when the open E is tuned properly the twelfth fret harmonic is proper as well and when I tune the 12th fret to e the harmonic goes flat.

File your E string seat on your nut.

Having a slightly smaller seat will affect your bass when you put a larger string on, but having a slightly larger seat when you have a smaller string on won't do much. My point: it's safe to do the said surgery on your nut.

CollinR · #18 08-26-2010, 12:41 AM

Makes sense. How much should I file? Until the string is seated completely under the nut? Also I'm afraid that if I file it too much then i might get a fret buzz on the F. Is this possible? I might just revert back to a smaller string if my instrument is in danger lol

Slax · #19 08-26-2010, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollinR

I dont have a measuring device on me but the string does sit slightly higher than the nut but it is completely flush with the bottom of it so its not like there is a wierd gap. All of the other strings sit completely in the groove while the e is slightly exposed. The harmonic stays in tune with the open e string so when the open E is tuned properly the twelfth fret harmonic is proper as well and when I tune the 12th fret to e the harmonic goes flat.

I'm thinking you might have to file the nut to fit the heavier gauge string so that it seats properly and not too high...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollinR

Makes sense. How much should I file? Until the string is seated completely under the nut? Also I'm afraid that if I file it too much then i might get a fret buzz on the F. Is this possible? I might just revert back to a smaller string if my instrument is in danger lol

It's definitely possible to file too much. You just need to be careful. Nuts are dirt cheap and you can always replace it if you messed up. (Well, dirt cheap if you replace it yourself...)

jd858us · #20 08-26-2010, 12:57 AM

It sounds like what you are in effect saying, by "the harmonic goes flat" is that the fretted note at the 12th fret is sharp. Whenever I do this process, I compare the fretted note to the harmonic, not the open string (even though if the harmonic is in tune, the open string should be as well.)

I suppose everyone has a slightly different process, but what has always worked for me is to tune the open string, check the harmonic, then check the fretted note against the harmonic and adjust. then retune the open string and begin the process again. With the thicker strings, small amounts of adjustment are magnified, and sloppy tuning keys can play a role here as well.