Not enough Truss in the world

Dauby90 · #1 03-13-2013, 05:21 PM

Alright So i have a cheap-o ESP B-105, the truss rod has been tightened to the point where it cant go anymore, the saddles have been taken all the way down and yet I STILL have approx 9/64th of relief at the 12th.

Now that you know the problem its proposal time.

I know that when you have this on an acoustic one would simply shave the bridge down, so if i apply that to this instance, seeing as how this is a cheap bass and one i dont play too often, and in the name of experimentation, Im thinking about using my dremel to route out a pocket for the bridge to sit in effectively lowering the overall height of the strings at the bridge. I dont know if this would effect intonation.

Any ideas? Or am I over thinking this (which I no doubt think I am

).

cjp3044 · #2 03-13-2013, 05:30 PM

Bolt-on? Try shimming the neck?

ctmullins · #3 03-13-2013, 05:39 PM

Single-action rod? Try adding a washer under the nut.

Yvarg · #4 03-13-2013, 05:41 PM

Are you talking about relief (the amount of bow in the neck)? Or action (the height of the strings from the fretboard)? The solutions you suggested only help if the action is too high. If it is truly a problem with relief, you need to find a way to bend the neck backwards more. I've seen it done with a few cleverly placed clamps and scrap 2x4's, but there's no guarantee that it will hold it's shape.

reverendrally · #5 03-13-2013, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjp3044

Bolt-on? Try shimming the neck?

what he said.

P.s. a few pics always help.

cjp3044 · #6 03-13-2013, 06:37 PM

And what he said. If the problem is with neck relief or bow, and the truss rod is maxed, there are ways to get more out of it - easier if it's single action rod, which I believe would be the case with your bass.

Before you go routing to lower the bridge, explore some other options first, and if you post some pictures, there's plenty of people that are here to help - the pictures will make it much easier.

Is the neck pretty straight? Put a capo on the first fret, a finger on the (probably 17th for your bass) - not trying to get an accurate measurement yet, just wanting to see how straight the neck is. You should be able to get a feeler guage of around .012 - .017 in between the string and about the 9th fret - if there is not enough room for the smaller feeler guage, you have a back bow - if there is quite a bit more space than the larger feeler, you have too much relief - let's find out just how straight your neck is first and then go from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reverendrally

what he said.

P.s. a few pics always help.

JLS · #7 03-13-2013, 10:40 PM

Yes; shim the heel of the neck.

bassbully · #8 03-14-2013, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLS

Yes; shim the heel of the neck.

Not to highjack but I have a question that also might help OP here as well.

What if the truss is maxed and there is decent(small) amount bow or relief but more than you want? Lowered saddles won't even help they are as low as they go like OP.

Ok so you shim, the issue I have had on a couple of MIK Squiers I did this with and it only brought the heal of the neck up causing the lower frets to buzz out and the small reflief is still there. It sounds like the OP has a bass like this also.
My thoughts are if there is bow and it cant come out there is always going to be bow. Shimming will only help when the neck is straight but still the strings are still to high? Correct?

cjp3044 · #9 03-14-2013, 08:27 AM

Yes. And this is not a hijack - it's very much on-topic. Reada couple of posts up where the OP is asked about the straightness of his neck - that should provide the answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassbully

Not to highjack but I have a question that also might help OP here as well.

What if the truss is maxed and there is decent(small) amount bow or relief but more than you want? Lowered saddles won't even help they are as low as they go like OP.

Ok so you shim, the issue I have had on a couple of MIK Squiers I did this with and it only brought the heal of the neck up causing the lower frets to buzz out and the small reflief is still there. It sounds like the OP has a bass like this also.
My thoughts are if there is bow and it cant come out there is always going to be bow. Shimming will only help when the neck is straight but still the strings are still to high? Correct?

Bassbubble11 · #10 03-14-2013, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLS

Yes; shim the heel of the neck.

How is a shim going to help a neck with to much relief with a maxed out truss?

bassbully · #11 03-14-2013, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjp3044

Yes. And this is not a hijack - it's very much on-topic. Reada couple of posts up where the OP is asked about the straightness of his neck - that should provide the answer.

So I guess your saying if its bowed..its bowed and shimming will not help..that I know.Shims only bring the action up by rasing the heal of the neck closer to the strings.
This is where I get buzzing on the last frets of the heal due to this and am only really trying to reduce string action at this point. I never play past the 12th fret so its been all good but wanted an better answer.

bassbully · #12 03-14-2013, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassbubble11

How is a shim going to help a neck with to much relief with a maxed out truss?

That is what I was wondering and the answer is ..it wont.

Big B. · #13 03-14-2013, 10:28 AM

Before making any invasive changes I would loosen the truss rod completely. Next, clamp the neck into the position you want it to ultimately reach. Next, with the neck still clamped, retighten the truss rod and see if that helps add adjustment. This should move the point of adjustment much closer to your final goal.

cjp3044 · #14 03-14-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassbully

That is what I was wondering and the answer is ..it wont.

If the action is too high, and the neck is straight (which we don't know at this point), AND the saddles are all the way down, then a shim will raise the neck closer to the strings.

Lots of good and valuable information here, but seriously, until any of us know how straight or tweaked the neck is, everything else is just an assumption. Knowing this information, plus pictures would be good, will help determine the correct course of action on helping the OP get his bass playable.

bassbully · #15 03-14-2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big B.

Before making any invasive changes I would loosen the truss rod completely. Next, clamp the neck into the position you want it to ultimately reach. Next, with the neck still clamped, retighten the truss rod and see if that helps add adjustment. This should move the point of adjustment much closer to your final goal.

This worked on one of my MIK necks and worked well, it's perfect now. The other MIK it helped but it still has slight bow more than I like but playable. That is the bass I shimmed and the note's buzz out at the heal of the neck..last 3 frets now.