Odd fret buzz

[OUT51D3R]

Yesterday, I changed the strings on my new b50 from the stock strings(SIT, light gauge I think) to some D'addario Chromes. After switching the strings, I noticed I was getting a really bad buzz on the 6th fret on the E string. I didn't remember having that problem previously, so I put the stock string back on there to check it out. No buzz. I thought maybe it was just a bad string, so I got another set of Chromes and put the new E string on there. The new Chrome string had the same buzz.

Seems really weird that I'd get buzz on one type of string, but not another. I did a little experimentation, and if I fret both the 5th and 6th fret, there's no buzz(in fact if I sustain the note on the 6th fret and move my finger on and off the 5th, the buzz goes away and comes back). If I push the string down directly on top of the 6th fret(instead of just behind it), there's no buzz.

Any idea what would be causing that? Seems like something is wrong with either the 5th or 6th fret, but I'm not sure which. The action is set nice and low, and this one fret is the only place I get any buzz, so I'd prefer not to raise the saddle or adjust the truss rod. How much should I expect to pay a guitar tech to fix something like this?

[Zooberwerx]

Sounds like what I call "back buzz" where there is inadequate relief and/or clearance betweenst the fretted note and nut. This is probably due in part to either:

*Over-cut nut slot (too deep), or

*Too-straight of a neck, backbow, or S curve.

In either case, the muting at the 5th fret is the giveaway. Here's another trick: stick a small piece of foil (gum wrapper will work) folded over in the nut slot, replace the string, and tune to pitch. If this corrects or minimizes the problem, I would take a closer look at nut clearance (.003-.005" per spec / procedure) and relief (.012-.014").

Riis

[grendle]

Yep sounds right. Probably due to a variation in the string gauge. That's why I use adjustable nuts

[OUT51D3R]

Ah, that's really interesting. I would never have thought of it being a nut issue. I'll try that experiment at some point today.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by grendle

Yep sounds right. Probably due to a variation in the string gauge. That's why I use adjustable nuts

A variation in string gauge won't affect the nut height. The distance from the bottom of the nut slot the fingerboard is constant regardless of string.

And that's why I think adjustable nuts don't make sense. There's one height that's right, so why does it need to be adjustable?

[OUT51D3R]

I tried the foil trick, and while it didn't completely get rid of the buzz, it did decrease it pretty drastically. I don't have anything that I could use to measure the clearance/relief with the kind of accuracy suggested.

To be honest, I'm questioning how much I should bother messing with this. The set up on this bass is surprisingly good for a $200 instrument. Low action, and buzz only on one fret(and the buzz isn't even there with the stock strings). The buzz isn't coming through on the amp. I'm thinking I'll either try some other strings(maybe a higher gauge Chrome), or just learn to ignore the buzz.

Would be nice to fix it if it can be done easily/cheaply and without adjusting the action, but doesn't seem like a necessity.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by OUT51D3R

I tried the foil trick, and while it didn't completely get rid of the buzz, it did decrease it pretty drastically. I don't have anything that I could use to measure the clearance/relief with the kind of accuracy suggested.

To be honest, I'm questioning how much I should bother messing with this. The set up on this bass is surprisingly good for a $200 instrument. Low action, and buzz only on one fret(and the buzz isn't even there with the stock strings). The buzz isn't coming through on the amp. I'm thinking I'll either try some other strings(maybe a higher gauge Chrome), or just learn to ignore the buzz.

Would be nice to fix it if it can be done easily/cheaply and without adjusting the action, but doesn't seem like a necessity.

Instead of dropping more dough on strings, take care of the root problem which is essentially the need for a decent set-up. Invest in a capo, feeler gauges ($4 at Pep Boys), and pocket rule. You can do most of the work yourself or at least objectively identify the problem area(s).

Riis

[OUT51D3R]

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Instead of dropping more dough on strings, take care of the root problem which is essentially the need for a decent set-up. Invest in a capo, feeler gauges ($4 at Pep Boys), and pocket rule. You can do most of the work yourself or at least objectively identify the problem area(s).

Riis

Hmm, yeah. Sounds like acquiring the tools to properly analyze the problem would pretty cheap, at least. May do so over the weekend. I'm a do it yourself kind of guy(mostly on the electronics side of things), so I've got no problem buying more cheap tools.

[grendle]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

A variation in string gauge won't affect the nut height. The distance from the bottom of the nut slot the fingerboard is constant regardless of string.

And that's why I think adjustable nuts don't make sense. There's one height that's right, so why does it need to be adjustable?

Ever change gauges and need to re setup your bass? If your picky, an adjustable nut makes all the sense in the world the first time you use one. Nuts do need to be tweeked for different gauges and action prefrence. I used to have 3 that were custom cut for 1 bass and switch them out if I changed gauges. With an adjustable its an easy change to get that little tweek to make things perfect . His issue may be either the gauge is a little too big for the cut on the nut or he may need to make sure he has enough wraps on the tuner post. Back buzz like that is wierd, but it does happen. With an adjustable you can raise the height at the nut a half turn or so and it will usually get rid of it, Or stuff something under the string at the nut. I like them for the set up value. I'm extremely picky about it and they are invaluable for me. Some aren't that picky and that's cool too.

[grendle]

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Instead of dropping more dough on strings, take care of the root problem which is essentially the need for a decent set-up. Invest in a capo, feeler gauges ($4 at Pep Boys), and pocket rule. You can do most of the work yourself or at least objectively identify the problem area(s).

Riis

+10!

Get the cheap tools needed, GO SLOW! watch about 20 videos on you tube, ask questions here and learn how to maintain your instrument. You will save $1000's in set up costs, and be able to have your instrument play perfectly all the time, every time. Get good and charge your friends for some new bass money. It's not too difficult to learn and imo, everyone should know how to properly set up their instrument.

[OUT51D3R]

Originally Posted by grendle

or he may need to make sure he has enough wraps on the tuner post.

Ah-hah. I notice I only have 2 wraps on the E post, while the other posts have closer to 3. I'll have to put the stock string back on there and take a look at how many it has.

I'm still a noob to this stuff(only been playing for 5 months, this is my second time stringing), so it's highly possible I was cutting the E string too short. Would be nice if the answer to my problem was my own incompetence rather than a problem with the instrument itself.

[grendle]

Originally Posted by OUT51D3R

Ah-hah. I notice I only have 2 wraps on the E post, while the other posts have closer to 3. I'll have to put the stock string back on there and take a look at how many it has.

I'm still a noob to this stuff(only been playing for 5 months, this is my second time stringing), so it's highly possible I was cutting the E string too short. Would be nice if the answer to my problem was my own incompetence rather than a problem with the instrument itself.

That will do it. Don't go more than 3 though. Too many and you'll put too much pressure on the nut and crack it. Can't tell you how I know either way lol

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by grendle

Ever change gauges and need to re setup your bass? If your picky, an adjustable nut makes all the sense in the world the first time you use one. Nuts do need to be tweeked for different gauges and action prefrence.

Sorry, but this makes no sense.

The nut will control the amount of clearance of the string over the first fret on an open string only. If the amount of clearance over the first fret is larger than the amount of clearance of the string over the second fret when the string is fretted at the first, the extra clearnace is excessive and will only lead to intonation problems and stiffness at the first fret. On a well set up instrument there is no point having more clearance at the first fret than at the second when fretted at the first - it should play the same regardless of position. And the same is true if the nut gives lower clearance at the first fret than from the fretted first to the second.

Regardless of string gauge, the amount of clearance from nut to first fret is a constant, unless your string is not sitting in the nut properly. So, as I said, there is only one correct nut height for any given instrument. So I cannot accept that an adjustable nut is useful unless you intend to change fret heights - as when you do a fret levelling/recorwning. Nut height should be adjusted then, but it's no big deal for the tech who does the fret work.

Changing string gauges will usually mean the bass setup will have to change. The nut slot width may have to change, the truss rod may need to be adjusted, even the bridge height. But if you have to change the nut height, there's something wrong. Yes you may have to change the slot width, but the height is a constant.

[walterw]

+1, that would be like having to change the height of the first fret for different strings.

slot width, yes, neck relief, yes, nut height (once you get it right), no.

[walterw]

OK, expanding a little, the mysterious phenomenon known as "back-buzz" can be alleviated by raising the nut higher than it should normally be.

typically though, better fretwork keeps the problem from happening.

[grendle]

Try one on a bass , that's all I can say. You may not prefer it , I do. When your picky about your set up getting as low as possible with a minimal level of buzz , and tweek your adjustments to within 1/8 of a turn or less I find them handy. Or when you do some fret work as you said. Their not something you mess with all the time once you have it dialed in. I change tunings a lot and gauges also switching from std, to dropped D , to a 5 string set in dropped B or A. I'm willing to sacrifice action a bit at the first fret for lower action elsewhere on the board. It's just what I prefer and very happy since I started using them. I'm one of those : "its almost perfect but I can get it a hair lower" type of guys.