piano player says I'm off pitch some of the time

ninepointedsean · #1 11-08-2006, 09:12 PM

hey guys, what's shakin? long time lurker infrequent poster.

my piano player in this latin jazz project is complaining that my bass is going in and out of pitch. I'll fret a note, the bass is flat, then comes up to pitch - according to him at least.

First time he mentioned it, I put on new strings. Still the same complaint. I've checked the 12th fret and it seems to be in tune like the open strings. I haven't had the bass intonated by a professional though.

This is a early 2000's 4 string mexican Jazz (fretted). Strings are GHS Boomers (roundwound).

Myself, I am hearing some waves in the sound when I play a note - but I'm not sure if this is normal for the natural decay of a vibrating string?

should I get the bass looked at by a professional? Should I buy one of those tuners with the spinning concentric circles like my teacher has to really get the bass in tune?

TIA for your help!

Peace
Sean

ninepointedsean · #2 11-08-2006, 09:21 PM

also - the tuner hits pitch, then goes over and under pitch as the note decays. Is this normal or do i have bad strings / badly installed strings / bad bass?

thanks.

**Mark Wilson** · #3 11-08-2006, 09:35 PM

Get it professionally intonated.
Not many people can tell the difference in the note's soundwaves.

Bassist4Life · #4 11-08-2006, 09:44 PM

You will hear a pitch change on a plucked string if you pluck it hard enough.

I forget the order, but the string will go sharp/flat/in-tune, or flat/sharp/in-tune. I remember reading an interview with Michael Manring about this topic. You could always email him your question.

I notice the most change in the pitch of a string when the string tension is low. This isn't always a bad thing. I like lower tension strings; however, I don't pluck them as hard.

I'm guessing that the amount of pressure in your left hand could change the pitch a little.

Also, higher action could change the pitch of the string to a degree and alter the vibrations a bit.

If I were you, I would sit down with a tuner and study the pitch changes. Find out when it changes and when it doesn't. Recognize your technique when it doesn't change.

Make sure your intonation has been adjusted properly too.

Joe

62bass · #5 11-08-2006, 09:45 PM

The piano player may need to get the dosage of his meds cut back.

202dy · #6 11-08-2006, 10:25 PM

Or increased.

Check your fretting technique to insure that you're pushing straight down on the string. In other words, that you're not bending. If this checks out refer to the above.

Seriously, some people can hear pitches with frustrating accuracy. He may have one of those rare sets of ears.

BTW, a wavering in pitch as a note decays is completely normal. If it bothers him that much tell him to use his left hand. ; )

ninepointedsean · #7 11-08-2006, 10:39 PM

thanks for the advice guys. I'll take it to a tech and see what he says.

I think he *does* have one of those sets of ears. Problem is, he's giving me suggestions to fix it that don't make sense, telling me to fret in the middle to get a flatter pitch. It's a FRETTED bass, man.

he's a tremendous piano player though. Swings like a muthaphucka.

greenboy · #8 11-08-2006, 11:18 PM

A lot of what's been said I would agree are good possibilities. Additional ones I've run across:

1) Neck not so rigid or at least not at the pocket, and player is pulling it around a little during attack.

2) Besides bending strings while fretting it's also likely for over-grippers to push them in really hard.

So make sure you are relaxed while checking out all the other possibilities ; }

Akami · #9 11-08-2006, 11:37 PM

Are you sure your pickups aren't too high?

If the magnetic field is too strong near the string it can cause some very undesirable warbling.

As far as proper intonating, most people are capable of doing it, but if you lack confidence then by all means take it to the shop.

superjesus · #10 11-08-2006, 11:38 PM

this is a silly question, but if your keys player is on an acoustic piano, is the piano in tune?

if you're really concerned about your intonation and cant get to a professional, check the entire fingerboard against a good tuner. this might help you find any problem areas.

ninepointedsean · #11 11-09-2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akami

Are you sure your pickups aren't too high?

If the magnetic field is too strong near the string it can cause some very undesirable warbling.

As far as proper intonating, most people are capable of doing it, but if you lack confidence then by all means take it to the shop.

well my bridge pickup IS pretty close to the strings. I'll lower it a bit and see what happens.

Bassist4Life · #12 11-09-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninepointedsean

Problem is, he's giving me suggestions to fix it that don't make sense, telling me to fret in the middle to get a flatter pitch. It's a FRETTED bass, man.

LOL. That's a piano player for ya'.

Joe

PS. Changing pickup height is a great suggestion. I forgot all about that.

jady · #13 11-09-2006, 10:34 AM

Does he smoke pot? I used to a lot and it is a proven fact that it can mess with your hearing a bit, specifically making lower frequencies sound out of tune. I have had other bassists I know express the same feelings, Just a thought..........

saxofunk · #14 11-09-2006, 10:41 AM

I bet you tune your bass nearly every time you pick it up. When was the last time he tuned his piano?

+1 on double checking the height of the pickups.

62bass · #15 11-09-2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jady

Does he smoke pot? I used to a lot and it is a proven fact that it can mess with your hearing a bit, specifically making lower frequencies sound out of tune. I have had other bassists I know express the same feelings, Just a thought..........

That's right. Pot's a hallucinogenic. Besides screwing up pitch and hearing it screws up time. Of course, if you're stoned you don't care or notice and everything sounds fine.

I worked with a Hammond player many years ago who was always out of it. Man, that made for some long nights. It's hard work keeping a band together when you have to deal with that.

Of course, we don't know for sure this piano player is on drugs. We just suspect it because he's a piano player.

Why is it that every keyboard player I've played with has a bad back and can't carry his equipment or help with load in or load out?

spudmaster34 · #16 11-09-2006, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62bass

Why is it that every keyboard player I've played with has a bad back and can't carry his equipment or help with load in or load out?

probably because back in the day they tried to do their part and carry their own gear, but a grand piano wound up being a bit heavy for them

ed khalimba · #17 11-09-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jady

Does he smoke pot? I used to a lot and it is a proven fact that it can mess with your hearing a bit, specifically making lower frequencies sound out of tune. I have had other bassists I know express the same feelings, Just a thought..........

+1!

62bass · #18 11-09-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spudmaster34

probably because back in the day they tried to do their part and carry their own gear, but a grand piano wound up being a bit heavy for them

Of course. I should have thought of that. Then they wre genetically predisposed to pass on a bad back gene to their offspring. Makes perfect sense now.

Scott in Dallas · #19 11-10-2006, 04:55 PM

I didn't see this mentioned, but if you've got a lot of wraps on the tuner and a slick, graphite-type nut that could cause problems, especially with higher action. It doesn't take much to make the pitch warble.

lonote · #20 11-11-2006, 05:29 PM

I agree this could be the problem. This is one of those nasty problems that could be caused by a number of things. it's like when your car runs like absolute crap...until you take it in for service, and it starts up and runs perfectly when the mechanic turns the key.