PLEK

[bwest9]

Hey folks, I’m new here but am aware that there are already many threads on the PLEKing process. Just wanted to share that I’ve had some fret buzz and neck tension in my Spector Euro 5XL for a bit now, a situation I felt that I couldn’t conquer with my own set-up skills, and so after talking w/ Larry Fitzgerald on the phone, I’ve had the instrument shipped to Sam Ash to be PLEK’d.

I found limited but good reviews on Larry and this Sam Ash outlet, and was wondering if there are any others out there that have had experiences with them?

In any case, when I get the instrument back, I'll contribute a full write up on set-up and the differences it made.

Thanks!

[BigOldHarry]

subscribed

Brave man, shipping your bass to Sam Ash. Brave.

[bwest9]

Why, bad experience?

[Eric Perry]

Subscribed. Eagerly awaiting your results!

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by bwest9

Why, bad experience?

Well, shipping a bass for as setup procedure seems fraught with peril from get go, given the knocking-around it will take in transit (every bass I've had shipped to me needed to be set up after arrival *unless* it was packed with tons of bubblewrap) - and I trust Sam Ash about as much as I trust GC.

But I am hoping to be proved wrong, meaning I wish you well on this.

I am lucky enough to be in So Cal, so there are several Plek options around here - the nearest is right by a fine minor league baseball park I visit on occasion, so I suspect my Zon will be getting dropped off there before the next Lake Elsinore Storm game I attend...

[bwest9]

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I agree, there is a certain amount of risk one takes on with shipping relatively delicate items like basses and guitars and the like. Fortunately, I did use an ample amount of bubble wrap; hopefully they will do the same in return.

The tension and buzz isn't awful, but I was thinking about switching to a new instrument because of it, especially after having played a nice Lakland. If this comes back from being PLEK'd and the issues have been eliminated, I'll probably stay with this bass for life.

Lake Elsinore Storm... hmm. We've got the Pawtucket Red Sox about 40 minutes away. They aren't the Red Sox, but you can't beat the price, parking, and it's always a good game with scrappy players.

[BigOldHarry]

Yeah, minor league ball rules - particularly with the price of a seat at Fenway! Yow!

I'd think there MUST be someone doing Plek's in the Boston area...

Some research leads me to this:

http://www.plek.com/en_US/kontakt/get-pleked/usa/

Hmmm... no New England listed - but the Suhr shop in Lake Elsinore isn't listed either, and I had read that he has one... Hmmm.... More research is clearly in order!

[bwest9]

Well at the very least it begs the questions as to when the last time that location list was updated... and if indeed someplace has acquired a PLEK machine in the New England area, why it hasn't been advertised.

The demand/market is there, certainly.

[g4string]

To me, I would rather have my bass worked on by a skilled luthier/tech then by a machine. I had a conversation with Carl Pedigo, head Tech at Lakland, and he explained it to me like this........PLEK is OK for a fret level but it only works if the neck is true/has 0 issues. If the neck is warped, bowed, etc then PLEKing isn't going to work. Plus, there is no way the machine knows if your neck is screwed up.....it takes a trained luthier/tech to diagnose that. Also, Lakland has 0 intentions of PLEKing their USA basses. All USA basses will get a level, dress, polish done by a tech. If it is good enough for Lakland, then it's good enough for me!! I for one am not ready to jump on the PLEK band wagon.

So, to the OP......I think a full PLEK is overkill in your situation. To me, it sounds like your neck needs to be adjusted and/or you have a fret/s that needs to be leveled. They money you spent in shipping your bass is probably what a skilled luthier/tech would have charged you for a neck tweek, level a fret, and a good once over.

[seacouch]

I have Mike Lull do all my bass work, and he's always pushing the PLEK, so I've tried it on a couple of my basses and have been pleased with the results. As g4string says though, other neck issues need to be resolved before PLEKing.

[Kael]

I've never plek'd a bass, but I plek'd a telecaster guitar once. Not sure how valid my opinion is as the frets had been worn BADLY on that instrument before the plek job. The plek machine did a damned good job fixing the frets on that tele. Wound up selling it a guitarist I work with and the frets lasted about 18 months of solid gigging (about 5 to 6 nights week) before issues started cropping up again. Given the amount of use that tele saw, I'd say the plek job was money well spent.

The price I paid for my plek job included them checking the neck and making sure it was straight before it was plek'd. Therefore the faulty neck question was a non-issue for me.

[g4string]

Originally Posted by seacouch

I have Mike Lull do all my bass work, and he's always pushing the PLEK, so I've tried it on a couple of my basses and have been pleased with the results. As g4string says though, other neck issues need to be resolved before PLEKing.

I am sure Mike is "looking" at the necks he PLEKS to make sure they are PLEK'able. I would assume that Sam Ash is not giving the basses/necks they get a good once over before PLEKing. They are in the biz of sales, not repair. Because of this, if all your bass needed was a simple tweek and didnt need a PLEK, your still getting a PLEK. The more PLEK jobs they can sell the better!! However, I am positive that it is a time saver to PLEK instead of fret working by hand. On a side note, when I was talking with Carl at Lakland, he said the PLEK doesnt work well with the USA basses......I dont know why, thats just what he said. I know others have had their USA Laklands PLEKd.....to what degree of success, I dunno??? Does it make a noticeable difference.....I dunno. But I am sure that after spending $250 for a PLEK job you think you notice a difference. It seems that everybody lately is sending perfectly functioning basses in to get PLEKd just to have them PLEKd. And those who have issues immediately jump to the assumption that their bass needs a PLEK job w/o having a competent tech troubleshoot/diagnose the neck. Despite all the PLEK hoopla, I do believe it is an effective way to get precision grade - super low action, assuming your neck is true. Again, I still would rather have a human do my fret work than a machine. There are still good number of competent bass manufacturers that do it everyday w/o a PLEK and have no intention of PLEKing their basses (Fodera, Elrick, Smith, Lakland, Sadowsky, Alembic, F Bass, MTD, Skjold, etc). Because of this, I still remain a PLEK skeptic.

Sorry for the rant, I am not trying to hijack the OPs thread and turn it in to a PLEK-vs-Hand work thread..........carry on

[seacouch]

Originally Posted by g4string

I am sure Mike is "looking" at the necks he PLEKS to make sure they are PLEK'able. I would assume that Sam Ash is not giving the basses/necks they get a good once over before PLEKing. They are in the biz of sales, not repair. Because of this, if all your bass needed was a simple tweek and didnt need a PLEK, your still getting a PLEK. The more PLEK jobs they can sell the better!! However, I am positive that it is a time saver to PLEK instead of fret working by hand. On a side note, when I was talking with Carl at Lakland, he said the PLEK doesnt work well with the USA basses......I dont know why, thats just what he said. I know others have had their USA Laklands PLEKd.....to what degree of success, I dunno??? Does it make a noticeable difference.....I dunno. But I am sure that after spending $250 for a PLEK job you think you notice a difference. It seems that everybody lately is sending perfectly functioning basses in to get PLEKd just to have them PLEKd. And those who have issues immediately jump to the assumption that their bass needs a PLEK job w/o having a competent tech troubleshoot/diagnose the neck. Despite all the PLEK hoopla, I do believe it is an effective way to get precision grade - super low action, assuming your neck is true. Again, I still would rather have a human do my fret work than a machine. There are still good number of competent bass manufacturers that do it everyday w/o a PLEK and have no intention of PLEKing their basses (Fodera, Elrick, Smith, Lakland, Sadowsky, Alembic, F Bass, MTD, Skjold, etc). Because of this, I still remain a PLEK skeptic.

Sorry for the rant, I am not trying to hijack the OPs thread and turn it in to a PLEK-vs-Hand work thread..........carry on

I appreciate your comments, you make some really good points. I trust Mike (Lull), and know that he always does great work, but I do think he pushes the PLEK so hard because he needs to recoup the price of the machine, which is pretty expensive - and it takes less time than doing it by hand, so it's a win/win for him.

[Nedmundo]

Originally Posted by g4string

There are still good number of competent bass manufacturers that do it everyday w/o a PLEK and have no intention of PLEKing their basses (Fodera, Elrick, Smith, Lakland, Sadowsky, Alembic, F Bass, MTD, Skjold, etc). Because of this, I still remain a PLEK skeptic.

Lakland uses a Plek machine now, as does G&L. (Edit: I see you mention Lakland USA. I'm not sure those are all Plek'ed, but the Skylines now are.)

Also, regarding your other points, as I understand it the results of the Plek treatment vary depending on the person using the machine. So with Plek, you are still depending on the skill and approach of the tech/luthier. At least that's how Phil Jacoby of Philtone explains it:

http://philtone.com/plek.html

I'm thinking about bringing a Fender or two down to Philtone this summer for a setup with Plek. I have two G&L's that received Plek treatment at the factory, and they have incredibly low action with no buzz. So I'm a believer.

[g4string]

Originally Posted by seacouch

..... I do think he pushes the PLEK so hard because he needs to recoup the price of the machine, which is pretty expensive....

I was going to say that.......

Originally Posted by Nedmundo

Lakland uses a Plek machine now......

Lakland only PLEKs the Skyline basses. The USA models are not PLEKd. USA Laklands are hand filed, dressed, and polished. Furthermore, Lakland has no intention of PLEKing the USA models. You are 100% correct that a satisfactory PLEK job is dependent on the skill level of the person using the machine. However, just because someone knows how to run a PLEK machine doesn't necessarily mean they are a skilled "hand" tech/luthier (and vise versa).......they are two separate skills.

[mongo2]

I have no idea why, but...

[bwest9]

Originally Posted by mongo2

I have no idea why, but...

Is that the poor man's PLEK?

[mongo2]

Well, it definitely doesn't follow the KISS principle.

[vejesse]

I never understood a great need for the Plek. I think it's kind of like a novelty act, something to get people into your shop. One problem is the thing costs as much as a house. Another is that you need to be a skilled luthier to use it. By the time you're done setting it up you could have been done with your work if you had done the fret job the the traditional way.

If the frets on a guitar are hard to level because the fingerboard surface isn't true or the neck doesn't 'work' normally what do you do? You take the frets out and true up the fingerboard before fretting. After going through the trouble of preparing the fingerboard and installing the frets, why have a machine level the frets? Leveling newly installed frets on a fingerboard that was accurately leveled usually goes quickly and accurately. The rounding and polishing is the tedious part. The plek doesn't re - crown, right? Why have the Plek polish the frets before they're crowned and the ends filed? And, if you need to 'jig' the neck to account for string tension, why do it on the Plek machine? Taking it on and off the machine... why tie up an expensive machine for that?

I heard that the new Plek uses a milling cutter instead of a surface grinder. Maybe they use a form cutter that re profiles the frets as well as levels them. Anyone know? Anybody care?

Even in a production environment I can't see it. When I worked at Lakland those unfretted fingerboards meant for Made in USA necks came to the workshop with an almost perfect surface. If they're using the Plek in Korea to level the frets on the Skyline basses it's because they can't find people to do it well ,fast and dirt cheap. Welcome to overseas manufacturing.

[BigOldHarry]

hmmmm....

This is the first thread I've seen with anything critical of the Plek process - - I'm happy to hear it...