Poorly made nut?

eggfart1 · #1 06-23-2011, 06:32 PM

I bought a wonderful bass a few weeks ago, it really is my dream bass. The only issue was that the nut didn't seem that well made...The strings are fairly deep into the grooves and it buzzes a bit. I got a great deal on it so I didn't really care but should Musicman be making basses like this without some sort of quality control? I told the shop I purchased it from and they said that's standard...I hadn't really seen a bass with strings so deep into the grooves before.

kb9wyz · #2 06-23-2011, 06:40 PM

I don't know MM that well, but I can see in the pic what you're talking about. It does look a bit deep.

But totally basic question: did you try the truss rod?

Just because the setup at the factory was good doesn't mean it's going to be good where you live. I've read a lot of posts from guys here who have run into that problem. You never know. A quarter or half turn could do you right up.

Slowgypsy · #3 06-23-2011, 06:52 PM

Has this instrument gotten a proper setup? Just because the slots look deep doesn't mean they're too deep. For your information... EBMM does have a well deserved reputation for excellent quality control. Doesn't mean every instrument coming out of their shop is flawless, but they do try really, really hard.

eggfart1 · #4 06-23-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowgypsy

Has this instrument gotten a proper setup? Just because the slots look deep doesn't mean they're too deep. For your information... EBMM does have a well deserved reputation for excellent quality control. Doesn't mean every instrument coming out of their shop is flawless, but they do try really, really hard.

Yup. I bought it from a very reputable shop here (brand new) and it came with a free setup. They left the nut alone and did a setup that was completely terrible. They put SO much relief into the neck that the strings were buzzing at the end of the fingerboard. I then reversed their damage by straightening the neck and raising the action at the bridge a tad. It doesn't buzz at all now and sounds really good. Still, I think that the nut isn't really that smooth or well done. All the other MM basses I've seen have the nut much shorter and the strings are trapped in these valley's...Kind of shocking how a big store has no idea how to set up an instrument, it was like "thanks for wasting my time"! lol

The store assured me that that was the way they received the bass from MM and that no one filed the nut down. The bass is flawless other than this but even the back of the nut isn't carved correctly as the e string is hitting the headstock...so much for quality control!

**Joshua** · #5 06-23-2011, 07:22 PM

I hate making judgement calls without having the bass in my hands, but the slots seem deep.

However, at worst MM just missed one. It's bound to happen, and if you contact their customer service I'm guessing they'll work with you on rectifying it. At best (in terms of this topic), perhaps the store messed with it and doesn't want to own up to it. You say they aren't knowledgable about some setup basics...

eggfart1 · #6 06-23-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua

I hate making judgement calls without having the bass in my hands, but the slots seem deep.

However, at worst MM just missed one. It's bound to happen, and if you contact their customer service I'm guessing they'll work with you on rectifying it. At best (in terms of this topic), perhaps the store messed with it and doesn't want to own up to it. You say they aren't knowledgable about some setup basics...

It's certainly a possibility, thanks. Just wanted to make sure that i'm not crazy for thinking that they're deep!

timsmcm · #7 06-23-2011, 08:47 PM

Most of the new musicman guits have that strange nut that has some form of intonation built in and they are cut different than regular nuts. By the way that is a killer piece of wood you have there for your neck.

diehard70 · #8 06-23-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timsmcm

... By the way that is a killer piece of wood you have there for your neck.

I'll second that. I know we're talking 'bout the nut, but I'd love to see a pic of the whole bass.

And, yes, the slots seem a bit deep to me as well.

eggfart1 · #9 06-23-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timsmcm

Most of the new musicman guits have that strange nut that has some form of intonation built in and they are cut different than regular nuts. By the way that is a killer piece of wood you have there for your neck.

I will post some soon! Intonation built into the nut? I dunno, a nut is a nut lol. This one just seems poorly done.

Yup, It's a great piece of wood. I got it in Coral Red.

berwick63 · #10 06-23-2011, 09:11 PM

The nut slots, as been said, definitely seem too deep. I don't understand why they filed them so deep. Why not just take some from the bottom, keep the strings on the meat of the nut.

eggfart1 · #11 06-23-2011, 09:19 PM

Ya, it makes no sense. I'll call customer service again...Someone is lying.

walterw · #12 06-23-2011, 09:38 PM

we have no idea if those slots are too deep or not without seeing how high the strings are off the first fret! they could in fact be perfect.

is that a "roasted" neck? nice.

berwick63 · #13 06-23-2011, 11:58 PM

I'm not saying that the action is not correct. I just feel as if the string should sit more ontop of the nut, not in it, like it is now. When filing my nut to improve low action, i remove it from the bottom of the nut. Maybe thats just me though

eggfart1 · #14 06-24-2011, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

we have no idea if those slots are too deep or not without seeing how high the strings are off the first fret! they could in fact be perfect.

is that a "roasted" neck? nice.

if the strings are too deep inside the groove it mutes them and can cause them to break. The rule of thumb for double bass is that 1/2 of the string should be exposed on top of the groove...not the entire string sunken in a valley.

Turnaround · #15 06-24-2011, 05:51 AM

If the bass is playing well on open strings, then the slots are not too deep. The upper surface of the nut may be too high, but the slots are right.

FWIW it doesn't look like typical MM work. I suspect the nut has been replaced - and not well done.

Slowgypsy · #16 06-24-2011, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggfart1

if the strings are too deep inside the groove it mutes them and can cause them to break. The rule of thumb for double bass is that 1/2 of the string should be exposed on top of the groove...not the entire string sunken in a valley.

And the science behind this is

I've actually never heard of bass guitar strings being muted or caused to break by a nut slot that's "too deep".

The slots on a bass guitar nut should be cut to the proper depth in relation to the first fret.

rayzak · #17 06-24-2011, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timsmcm

Most of the new musicman guits have that strange nut that has some form of intonation built in and they are cut different than regular nuts.

They did go to a new style of nuts a couple of years ago. Not sure if the classics use the same nut as their other instruments, but they are cut very deep. I think this is by design, not shoddy workmanship.

bovinehost · #18 06-24-2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggfart1

I got a great deal on it so I didn't really care but should Musicman be making basses like this without some sort of quality control? I told the shop I purchased it from and they said that's standard...

As Sterling Ball said to you about this very issue,

Quote:

"Its possible that something slipped up but I'm wondering why the dealer sold it and why you bought it....either way if someone hasn't monkeyed with it we will take care of it."

Doesn't that seem like a pretty good thing to you? Of course, you didn't mention the part about the "great deal" "so I didn't really care" on the EBMM forum, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway.

Caca de Kick · #19 06-24-2011, 10:30 AM

The Classic series basses do not have the modern 'compensated nut'. They simply used the regular old style.

But with that said, on a StingRay even going back to the preEB era, it is typical to find the E string contacting the wood as the string angle bends down toward the tuner. Yes, it's typical. Just like most Fenders did this too.

The depth of the grooves in this case has nothing to do with the height of the nut. Some builders use shallow nuts, some use tall nuts. You cut the grooves to set the string height in accordance to the first fret, not in accordance to the top of the nut.
But with that said also, if you don't like how tall the nut is, you can simply file it's height down. That's what personal preference is all about when doing setups.

Caca de Kick · #20 06-24-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eggfart1

if the strings are too deep inside the groove it mutes them and can cause them to break. The rule of thumb for double bass is that 1/2 of the string should be exposed on top of the groove...not the entire string sunken in a valley.

Now that's just false. I've owned a ton of basses with tall nuts, it's didn't make a difference.
All of my Wal basses, their factory nuts are much taller above the strings. No one has ever complained of those sounding muted.
Ken Smith nuts also use fairly deep grooves. Doesn't make a bit of difference.