Is it possible to be in tune across entire fingerboard?

[Chrisk-K]

I'm talking about fretted basses, of course. Even when 12th fretted note = 12th fret harmonic, I find slightly out-of-tune notes, especially on the E string (I'm talking about a few cents). I find the same imperfection on all my basses.

Do you own a bass that's in tune at every position?

PS. Had I not bought a rack tuner, I wouldn't be posting this!

[fractiouslowend]

have you intonated?

[agreatheight]

Short answer, no.

[Chrisk-K]

have you intonated?

Yep. You missed "12th fretted note = 12th harmonic" in my original post.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by agreatheight

Short answer, no.

^This.

No fretted, stringed instrument can be in tune across the FB.

Regards
Sam

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

No fretted, stringed instrument can be in tune across the FB.
Sam

Here's an attempt at correcting intonation on a fretboard - a guitar in this case...

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/articl...retboard-.html

[rickdog]

Two answers, for two aspects of "in tune".

First, physical limitations prevent an instrument that makes its music mechanically (as opposed to, say, a synthesizer) from always being perfectly in tune. For example, If I tune my bass "perfectly" to a tuner while holding it in a playing position, then lay it on its back, the weight of the neck pulls it a few cents sharp. Hit a note hard - watch the pitch change as it decays.

Second, define "in tune". If you aren't familiar with the phrases "equal tempered" and "just intonation", learn about them, they'll open up a whole new world of "in tune".

Oh, one more answer: play fretless

[Bassdirty]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

Here's an attempt at correcting intonation on a fretboard - a guitar in this case...

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/articl...retboard-.html

That thing has got to be hard to get used to.
IMO..it really wont make enough of a difference to make it worth the trouble.
(Plus, if one guy has a "special guitar that is in perfect tune"...the other guys in the band would be slightly off...unless they all get the special guitars.Then again, theres other variables, like how hard people "fret" the notes,or chords..I know a guy who presses really hard, so it sounds sharp when he's playin, and cant figger it out, cuz the tuner says he's good.)

.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

Here's an attempt at correcting intonation on a fretboard - a guitar in this case...

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/articl...retboard-.html

+1 The Buzz Feiten type systems have been developed to lesson this a bit, but for most, not worth the trouble.

A few other 'dirty little secrets' about setting intonation and also using a tuner to see if you are 'in tune':

1) Take a bass to one set-up guy and have it intonated. Then take the bass immediately to another set-up guy, and he/she will virtually find the bass 'not quite intonated correctly' Slight differences in the position of the bass and the plucking strength, etc. will result in a bit if 'wiggle waggle' in any intonation set-up.

2) As you get closer to the nut, the string stretches a touch more as you fret it (depending on the nut height and the set-up height). This results in your lowest notes always showing a touch sharp (plus some inherent 'out of tune-ness' up there anyway, due to some funkiness in the way Western scales line up with constant fret placement equations). The nut placement modification that Paul Reed Smith uses on his Guitars, and also the nut placement part of the Feiten system attempt to rectify the inherent sharpness up close to the nut.

3) A player's technique can really impact the 'in tuneness' of an instrument, with the string ringing quite sharp with a heavy initial attack.

So, IMO... don't sweat the slight 'out of tune' issue with a fretted bass. The most that is worth doing (IMO) is moving to a slightly more advanced intonation method, using the harmonics versus fretted notes at a couple different places on the neck (e.g., 12th and 7th fret) to 'even out' the out of tune nature of a fretted instrument.

[Chrisk-K]

Second, define "in tune". If you aren't familiar with the phrases "equal tempered" and "just intonation", learn about them, they'll open up a whole new world of "in tune".

Of course, I was talking about "in tune" under the 12 tone equal temperament. I've never heard a recording where an electric bass was tuned according to, say, the Db minor temperament.

[JLS]

You mean, it sounded in tune, to your ears, beforehand?

[Art Araya]

Originally Posted by agreatheight

Short answer, no.

Not an expert but I believe that the long answer involves learning about the history of tempered tuning.

[Gizmot]

In my experience, I've never heard a fretted instrument that is perfect at every point on the neck. If you get lucky or spend a lot of time, you can make it better, but it is never perfect everywhere.

[joroched]

This should be the link to an excellent article called The centries old stuggle to play in tune - www.slate.com/id/2250793/pagenum/2

[Chrisk-K]

You mean, it sounded in tune, to your ears, beforehand?

According to my 20 year old Boss Tuner, it was in tune. According to my new rack tuner, some notes are out of tune by 1 or 2 cents. Of course, all notes sound in tune to my ears.

[JLS]

So what? You can't hear it.

Take that tuner back, get something useful. Use your old tuner,
and your ears!

[LiamPodmore]

Yes, it is possible. A company called True Temperament makes necks that have the frets alligned so each note is perfectly in tune. Steve Vai uses them on his touring guitars, among others.

Link: http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

Edit: Just noticed it was mentioned above with the Steve Vai thing, my bad.

Liam.

[rx2enemy]

That 1/2 electric and 1/2 acoustic double-neck Steve Vai is bragging about in that video is one of the most stupid instuments I have ever seen. What a pompus egomanic, he thinks his idea is cutting edge. The acoustic half sounds like a uke.

[rx2enemy]

Also, wouldnt the frets on the true temperment system make bending notes very hard to control? Seems like a waste, right along the lines of Malmsteen's scalloped fretboard.

[JLS]

I'll say...