Problem with my P-bass setup...

[cire113]

Im not sure whats wrong with my pbass.. the truss rod is turned pretty tight.. It wont really go any tigher.. And the neck is still really concave... However my bridge saddles are set as low as possible.. But the action is still way higher than i like it?

I try lowering the saddles more but then the frets clank...

Ive tried adjusting the neck each way in small increments but man at the "tightest" i can get the neck there is still significant concaveness...

My goal is just to have super low action..


Thanks

[john grey]

Need pics.
Is this a Fender MIM? Cranking the truss-rod to deal with action issues is not appropriate. Basically moving the Truss-rod more than a bit at a time is also not a great idea. Pictures and in-depth details of the issue would help. Did the Bass EVER have a relativity mild relief to the neck?

More guitars & Basses, etc have been ruined by people moving too fast and not doing any background research than anything else. Start by reading the sticky re: Fender issues (IF that's what you have).

[cire113]

I might just take it to a luthier..All i know is this p-bass the neck is way too curved considering how tight the truss rod is...

I just want to know what a regular p-bass neck is supposed to look like.. when you look at it down the line... I cant find any pics.. is it flat?. slighly concave?

[randyg]

Hold the E string down at the 1st & 20th fret. If the gap between the string and the 8th fret is more than the thickness of a credit card , the neck has too much bow in it and if you are not sure how to adjust the truss rod it's time to seek professional help.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by cire113

I might just take it to a luthier..All i know is this p-bass the neck is way too curved considering how tight the truss rod is...

I just want to know what a regular p-bass neck is supposed to look like.. when you look at it down the line... I cant find any pics.. is it flat?. slighly concave?

Doesn't matter what it's, "supposed" to look like, because it's obviously too hard to play, and you can't fix it. "Too tight trussrod" is a big red flag, IMO.

Regarding "super low action"--this will almost undoubtedly require a fret level/recrown.

Take it to a pro.

[nashman]

Perhaps your truss rod is not "maxed" - due to the pressures involved, maybe you need to give the truss rod a bit of help. If you are not sure, go to a pro. You might consider applying the appropriate pressure to the neck with your hands while adjusting the truss rod, in small increments.

[slobake]

Had the same problem with my 04 MIM P-Bass. I backed the truss nut all the way off and pulled the neck in a back-bow direction. Had a heck of a time getting the truss rod nut back on, it just wouldn't grab the frets. Some good folks here at TB suggested a T-wrench and a ball end wrench and that did the job. I lubed the inside of the truss rod nut with a little Vaseline and finally got it to take. I didn't have to tighten it too much and my neck is now nice and straight. It definitely passed Randy G's credit card test. In fact i had to raise my stings a little to get rid of some buzz. It plays real nice now.
I will be watching the next couple of days to see if the bow comes back. I'm not a luthier or an expert on repairs but this worked for me.
There is an excellent book by Dan Erlewine called the Guitar Player Repair guide. Mostly about repairing guitars but some stuff about basses. He also suggests putting a small washer or two between the nut and the truss rod. Sometime when a truss rod has been tightened too much it can compress the wood and the washers will compensate for this.
I hope this helps, good luck.

[slobake]

I saw some regulars in another TB post talking about putting a washer between the nut and truss rod. They say you have to enlarge the holes in the washer. That is what happened when I tried to do this, I couldn't get the washer over the truss rod. I thought I had just bought the wrong washer. Turns out I didn't need the washer any way.

[john grey]

When considering repairs, there is a "concept method" that I have come to use. It appears to work w/ musical instruments, automobiles, & even software issues. I generally ask myself:
1.) Did the problem(s) always exist?
2.) If NOT, what had changed? {In other words, what were the possible contributing factors to the item being dysfunctional?}
This gives one a starting point & an opportunity to just ponder what might be at issue rather than moving in on something without clear direction (which is often the worst thing possible).

1.) If the problems always existed (& you received the item w/ the idea of repairing those problems), I would take some time and actually make a list of all the possible reasons why such an issue could have resulted. The idea of actually making a list is to see if there is an inter-relationship in an existing problem & to remember every idiosyncrasy.
2.) With that list, I prioritize them [in a manner of what is logical] from the most to least likely. This is an area where it's critical not to rush in, but picture what is common place & what is not. And I look for an interdependency in the problems & construction of the item.

Example: Dealing with action and relief issues, using the Truss-rod to compensate is often a poor idea unless you know for a fact that the rod never had any adjustment what so ever. This is very rare (but it could occur) & would immediately be noticed by substantial reaction to any adjustment, etc. Meaning that 1/4 turns have visual changes, etc. There is a very significant reason why MANY (if not MOST) guitar mfg's advise adjustments of only 1/4 turn at a time.

Different strings have different weights at tuned tension. Strings are the element that may be a complex variable in a setup. Density, diameter, & composition can contribute to that tension level. Flats (higher density) will often sit lower in a given setup than round-wound strings. Yet these (& many more) variables must be considered in a logical sequence. A given neck may also respond depending upon it's design, density (of wood), composition, & other design variables. Necks can be ruined. Different price-point offerings can also vary widely in the consistency of the overall quality of the instrument. They can leave the assembly point w/ deficiencies & exist that way. If you received the neck in a bowed condition you may be able to bring it to a level of relief that's comfortable to play but it may not be able to get to a "flat-neck" condition unless you lower the tension on that neck by utilizing strings w/ substantially lower tension levels given that the neck may not be able to withstand more in it's design. Is that possible? Yes. Is it likely? Not necessarily; but if you are considering the possibilities, you should consider all contributing factors in a logical sequence.
My point is that with any problem, the more information, weighed with logic, the more likely you are to be successful & [most importantly] not damage what you are trying to repair.
In the above example you see an inter-relationship of neck & string tension. It's not a great example but it fits.
I am fairly sure that the majority of musical instruments have been ruined than have ever left the factory in an unacceptable condition. Yet it IS possible that you have a problem based in construction; only you will know that as you know the instrument's history.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by john grey

Example: Dealing with action and relief issues, using the Truss-rod to compensate is often a poor idea unless you know for a fact that the rod never had any adjustment what so ever.

Not a good example. You will need to deal with the trussrod if the relative humidy has changed significantly where your bass lives regardless of whether or not you ever did an adjustment before (assuming a wooden neck). Adjusting a trussrod is not a one-time operation.

[SGD Lutherie]

How heavy are the string gauges? You might need to go to a lighter set, and the neck needs to be back clamped and then have the rod adjusted.

Just cranking the adjusting nut is not the way to go when the neck is up bowed.

[Rockin Mike]

Are you sure you were tightening the truss rod? If it's maxed out in the wrong direction you would get significant bowing.

For all basses I've seen, standing at the headstock looking toward the pickups, the truss rod adjustment is "righty tighty, lefty loosey".

Tighten no more than 1/4 turn. The neck will continue to move for a few days after adjustment. Give it time to settle before adjusting again.

Loosen strings before tightening the truss rod. You don't need to fight against the extra tension and you don't want to break a string.

Great neck relief is not evenly bowed along the whole neck. Great relief is straighter on bridge end of the neck and more pronounced near the headstock. Kind of like a lowercase letter "f". Good luck with that, I've never been able to achieve it

Avoid big changes in temperature and humidity to prevent neck changes in the future.

[Turnaround]

Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you Mike, but I feel I need to address some of the myths that ALWAYS show up here, year after year.


1. For all basses I've seen, standing at the headstock looking toward the pickups, the truss rod adjustment is "righty tighty, lefty loosey".

There are quite a few basses out there with reverse trussrods - like Pedullas. If don't know for certain which way your bass works, best ask. The manufacturer is the best resource, but you can ask users online. If you check online, I don't know how you will sort out the knowledgeable from less-than-informed answers.

2. Tighten no more than 1/4 turn. The neck will continue to move for a few days after adjustment. Give it time to settle before adjusting again.

You can do more than a quarter turn without problems in most cases. I Just did a bass where it took in excess of four complete rotations of the TR to get the neck right. No waiting - done all at once. BUT I knew there would be no problem - it took three full turns to take up the slack in the rod, and another turn to set the relief. How would you know if you were to do it yourself? Depends on your level of experience and how mechanically inclined you are. If in doubt consult a specialist.


3. Loosen strings before tightening the truss rod. You don't need to fight against the extra tension and you don't want to break a string.

It's highly unlikely you would break a string by adjusting the trussrod. You are more likely to get hit by lightning on a Tuesday while tying your shoes. Not saying that it couldn't happen though. But it is a good idea to loosen the strings while tightening the trussrod - no sense fighting a opposing force if you don't have to. Then again, if it's just a little tweak (something I do FREQUENTLY on my own basses), just go ahead. No one will die.

4.Great neck relief is not evenly bowed along the whole neck. Great relief is straighter on bridge end of the neck and more pronounced near the headstock. Kind of like a lowercase letter "f". Good luck with that, I've never been able to achieve it.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Why would it be advantageous to flatten out the curve toward the body joint? The point where you need the most relief is mid-string. That's at the twelfth fret. And if you are convinced of the value of relief (some aren't) you will need it even when fretting in the upper registers - that is if you are trying to get the action as low as possible.

Please take these comments in the way they are intended - to share information and experience, and to encourage discussion.

[cire113]

Thanks for the help guys... I gave the neck a little pressure with my hands and it somehow straightened out perfectly lol...

Well i still havent gotten a straight answer on how the neck is supposed to look like...(straight, slightly concave, etc)

But my is pretty straight so im happy...

[Stumbo]

Maybe the truss rod was bound up on something? Keep checking it for the next few days.

Did you apply the neck pressure with the strings on?

Have you been tightening the truss rod with the strings on?

Maybe that's the difference?