Problems with P-bass Setup help!!

[cire113]

Well here is my goal: to have lowest possible action without frett buzz..

heres my problems.. Neck seems straight to me i had to tighten it up... pretty straight barely any concave...

First the A string and only the a string will NOT stop rattling... its a weird rattle... its the only string that rattles.. I tried raising the saddle all the way up super high and it still rattles.. i even tried adjusting the neck in every way and it still rattles..

Secondly my E string.... when using a tuner and tuned to "E" its out of tune to other strings(even though the tuner reads "E")

.. its very weird... However when i tune it to D# its in tune to a real E.....

I'm more confused about the a string rattle... ive trid everything.. the latter e string sounds like an intonation issue?

[WyrdoBass]

To me the E string issues sound like an intonation issue as well... you can check the itonation by comparing the 12th fret harmonic to the fretted 12th fret of the E string with a tuner; if they're out of tune with each other, then the intonation is off.

Necks do need some bow in them; the flatter the neck is, the more potential for buzz there is. Try looseningit a bit and lowering the action other ways- bridge saddle height, maybe try shimming the neck if you're comfortable with it.

[dmusic148]

The string rattle is coming from the nut. Rewind the string so that it sits tighter in the slot- this is a common fender issue. The other problem is a bridge saddle/intonation adjustment.

[Corey Y]

+1 to dmusic148's suggestion. It's a common issue for the A string to not have enough downward pressure against the nut, due to the combination of Fender headstock design and string retainer. You need to make sure you have the maximum amount of string break possible from the nut to the tuner. You could install a Hipshot string retainer, but it's easier to just wind the string so it's anchored as low as possible on the tuner. If that doesn't work the nut may be cut too deep.

[cire113]

Ok its definetly coming from the nut good call guys!! but i still cant get rid of it lol!!

[cruzois]

i've got a mex Jazz neck that the truss rod rattles when the neck is right

[ErikW]

Make sure your "A" string is wound properly. Should be at least 3 winds of string on top of it. As others have said. It's a big issue with Fenders. Have seen guys wind it with the string exiting the tuner from the top instead of the bottom of the stack of winds.

[tdub0199]

Also make sure you wind the string downwards on the tuning peg as this will help keep it taught on the nut....

[Spinal Tapper]

I had that A string problem you had with the A string on my Ibanez Ric Lawsuit bass.

I tightened the (adjustable) string retainer downward and it gave more pull downward on the strings. Yours probably doesn't have an adjustable string retainer, but definitely double check the winding of the strings on the post. Make they wind downward putting a lot of downward pressure on the string...let me see if i can find a pic...



This is what I'm talking about. Although, you could actually use a couple more wraps around the "A string" post to apply more pressure downward onto the string itself - like how I have the "D string" wound...

[john grey]

How is the SHAPE of the nut groove? If the nut has a deep "U" instead of a "V" with an angle dropping down away from the tuner end, you'll still get rattle if the nut cut is wide. By making the nut angle downward slope down toward the tuner side, you increase the drop tension.

[cire113]

ok so im confused
.. as i wind it on the tuner... the loops should go on TOP of the first one that enters? and i should wind counter clockwise or down?

that pic you showed me is that the right way to loop the strings???

[john grey]

Look at the picture. If the strings were a bit longer, they would force the feed to the BOTTOM of the peg. That would be ideal. But basically the illustration is the appropriate method; as they wind they feed the string downward like a Barber-pole. This increases the angle of the peg-to-nut. The nut should also be cut a bit to allow for such a feed but that what I wrote originally and I'm sure most people understand that aspect of it.

[berwick63]

Take string. Put into hole in tuning peg. Bend 90 degree angle, start turning the tuning key. Hold the string tight to the headstock, as low as it goes, continue winding. Eventually, you'll be up to pitch, and the string will be wound from top to bottom. So if the string comes over the nut, it then winds "up" the post and ends in the hole in the shaft

[Rafael]

If the string is rattling while open, it could also be that the string groove is too deep, allowing the string to buzz on the first fret....this isn't as uncommon as you'd think, especially depending on string gauge used....if you suspect this, try pulling the string out of the nut groove and line the slot with one or more layers of paper to raise the string height....if that cures it, you may need a new nut. Good luck!

[cire113]

Originally Posted by WyrdoBass

To me the E string issues sound like an intonation issue as well... you can check the itonation by comparing the 12th fret harmonic to the fretted 12th fret of the E string with a tuner; if they're out of tune with each other, then the intonation is off.

Necks do need some bow in them; the flatter the neck is, the more potential for buzz there is. Try looseningit a bit and lowering the action other ways- bridge saddle height, maybe try shimming the neck if you're comfortable with it.

its weird the harmonic and fret match up.. but on the tune it says D #...

and when i tune it to E.. it says E... but its obviously not in tune with the rest of the strings although it says "e" its still about half or whole step off... weird...

as far as the string rattle ive tried everyones suggestions i give up...

its a shame after 4 hrs of trying to fix this im gonna have to pay 80$ for some guitar tech at guitar center to fix it in 10 mins

The last thing im gonna try is a completely new set of strings... its definetly 100% the NUT rattling

[Spinal Tapper]

Originally Posted by john grey

Look at the picture. If the strings were a bit longer, they would force the feed to the BOTTOM of the peg. That would be ideal. But basically the illustration is the appropriate method; as they wind they feed the string downward like a Barber-pole. This increases the angle of the peg-to-nut. The nut should also be cut a bit to allow for such a feed but that what I wrote originally and I'm sure most people understand that aspect of it.

thanks. this is exactly what I was trying to say with the picture.

[lethargytartare]

Originally Posted by cire113

its weird the harmonic and fret match up.. but on the tune it says D #...

and when i tune it to E.. it says E... but its obviously not in tune with the rest of the strings although it says "e" its still about half or whole step off... weird...

as far as the string rattle ive tried everyones suggestions i give up...

its a shame after 4 hrs of trying to fix this im gonna have to pay 80$ for some guitar tech at guitar center to fix it in 10 mins

The last thing im gonna try is a completely new set of strings... its definetly 100% the NUT rattling

a) Have you tried a different tuner? If you tune everything and just the E is off, did you try tuning the E manually to the A (that is, fret E5, check against the A that you consider to be in tune). Once tuned up like that, does the E stay in tune with the E12?

b) You say the A rattles -- so it makes noise only when played open, or when fretted too? If it's noisy when fretted, it's not the nut or string windings. If it's noisy when fretted, is it equally noisy regardless of which fret you're on, or does the noise cease after a certain fret?

c) Can you measure and compare your string height at the first fret (that is, your slot depths) between the different strings?

Also, the nut slots on a fender style neck should be parallel to the fretboard, not angled toward the headstock (which you DO want on a neck with an angled headstock) -- that's something that can cause rattling.

$80 is high for a setup -- you should be able to get a tech to check out that specific problem for less, and if you have new strings, you should be able to get the to knock the setup price down some.

Good luck! Post back with any updates!

[cire113]

well guys i changed all my strings... and all the problems got fixed somehow!! lol..

I think the problem with the nut rattle on the "a" string was i cut the string length too short and only had 1 loop... i looped it 3 times witih a new string and someone it got fixed..

as far as the intonation problem it got fixed as well i dont know what happened!!


My neck should be pretty straight and little concave right?

thanks!!

[john grey]

Originally Posted by cire113

well guys i changed all my strings... and all the problems got fixed somehow!! lol..

I think the problem with the nut rattle on the "a" string was i cut the string length too short and only had 1 loop... i looped it 3 times witih a new string and someone it got fixed..

as far as the intonation problem it got fixed as well i dont know what happened!!


My neck should be pretty straight and little concave right?

thanks!!

YES: this is called "relief" and is appropriate. However what you found by replacing your strings is very important. The factor of additional windings forced the angle downward.
It is also an important factor that testing of relief, action height, and string related issues be tested while the Bass is plugged into the amp.
You would think that is obvious, yet many people are alarmed at the noise that bass makes while a string is plucked firmly and the instrument not plugged into an amp. A person can get MANY perfectly appropriate Basses to sound odd when not plugged into an amp. And therefore work on some problem that really doesn't exist. You play the instrument while it's amplified; not when it's not. Occasionally very low actions sound fantastic when amplified, yet make string noise when not amplified due to a variety of factors. One of those is the (sometimes subconscious) attempt to determine if there IS something wrong.

When you play an amplified instrument you play in a manner that may not be the same as when it is un-amplified. There are some folks who even setup their necks with little or NO relief for an unusually low action & the Bass sounds fine. That's because the player has adjusted his touch to a delicate method that is difficult to emulate when the instrument is un-amplified.


Edit:

I also wanted to add something that many people pass over because it appears so obvious; yet don't take into consideration. When playing a fretted instrument, the placement of a finger in between the frets (especially on wider spaced frets) may result in unwanted string noise, that will disappear if the finger is place just behind the fret. It's so obvious that often people simply dismiss the finger placement & (incorrectly) believe that there must be an issue with the neck or fret construction. However most instrument especially at certain string height can be made to sound poorly if this is not attended to.

[tdub0199]

Glad you got the problem fixed....