Professional setup woes?

[heavyhitter]

I just had my Jazz bass setup by the “best tech” in town. I dropped the bass off at the music store and the part –time college or high school kid took my order so to speak. I told him how I want the action set. I specifically said that I play pretty aggressive and I have a heavy attack and that I don’t want really high action but as low as it can go without the fret “clank” with as heavy as an attack that I have. Then I did a demonstration of a typical tune and how I played, and he said he knows exactly what I mean.

Fast forward 10 days later. My bass is done and I get a call to pick it up. I was out of town for work so I had my wife pick it up for me. When I opened up the case there was a note in there telling me all the stuff he has done. Polished it, oiled the finger board, adjust bridge, and cut the nut etc. and he wrote “To get the action this low I had to crown and polish all of the frets. This is normally an extra $75. When restringing the E and A leave enough string so that you can create an angle on the tuner”.

Now he didn’t charge the extra $75 which is cool because he did the work, but also it was to “set the action super low” which is not what I asked for.

So I start to play it and it is a NICE setup but it’s so low that when I start jamming, the E string is “clank clank clank” when I play hard. Would I seem like a jerk in taking it back to him to have it redo it so I don’t get the clank? I love everything else about the setup. Should just raising the strings some eliminate this?

[T-MOST]

Well ,you can't add fret material once you take it off and a refret won't be free. Simply raise the saddles for higher action and you are done.

[heavyhitter]

Originally Posted by T-MOST

Well ,you can't add fret material once you take it off and a refret won't be free. Simply raise the saddles for higher action and you are done.

So did he essentially cut my fret life in half by recrowning them? I have a MIA from 1997 and it has a lot of fret wear from playing over the years, so im thinking that years worth of play was taken out of these frets by shaving them down?

[mrhardy]

Do you know what the relief is set at, can you give us the numbers?

What is your action measurement at the 17th fret with the strings open.

What is the clearance of the strings at the first fret?


Does the bass "clank" evenly from the first fret through the last?


The easy answer is to just raise the bridge saddles. However, raising them to an acceptable level to get the first frets to play clean, will mean very high action higher up the board. Probably to high, even for you.

I would call the person who did the work, and talk to him. If he is a professional about his work, then he should be interested in setting the instrument up for you, to your playing style and liking. Afterall you are the one playing the bass, not him.

Since the bass plays well, but your style is too heavy for the low setup, then it should not be an issue to adjust both the relief, and the action, for an overall setup to your liking.


Just how hard do you play?

[jnuts1]

Heavy, i wouldn't worry too much about it. all you have to do is loosen the truss rod a 1/4 turn. just don't mess with the bridge at all & you will be fine. but once you turn it you have to wait to see how it really works out. it takes some time before the rod settles to where it will stay. & if you need more try again the next day with the same 1/4 turn.

& i don't think you lost any life out of the frets, they do do become worn & definitly need adjustment if you want your instument to play properly.

My main bass is a MTD & i have had countless setups done & fret levels (i like to retune from EADGC to BEADG quite frequently) & i think this bass will stay strong for another 10 years.

[jnuts1]

also i will say after a setup i do have them readjust what they have done all the time. but i am very specific about what i want & what will & will not work for me.


the techs i work with really like when you can tell them exactly what you want. & they never mind me coming in multiple times. but i am in there all the time.

[mrhardy]

Typically, there is very little material removed to true up uneven frets. The loss of material is more than made up by having a better playing instrument when everything is, as it should be. I would not stress about it, unless you really see that a lot of material has been removed. Has it?

As a general statement, an instrument that is set up to very close tolerences will require that all parts be as perfect as possible. Likewise, small variations in the setup due to climatic changes will more readily become apparent. High performance means higher maintanance levels.

On the opposite side. A bass with a generally loose relief, and high action will show less signs of climatic changes to the player. However, the instrument generally does not play as well as the one that is really dialed in to a gnats behind.

[jnuts1]

i am totally with you about the gnats behind. 1+

[202dy]

Originally Posted by heavyhitter

So did he essentially cut my fret life in half by recrowning them? I have a MIA from 1997 and it has a lot of fret wear from playing over the years, so im thinking that years worth of play was taken out of these frets by shaving them down?

The idea behind dressing is level the frets into the same plane. In doing so, the material removed is only to the lowest point of wear. Most of the metal dust on the fingerboard during the process is from the area of the fret where the string does not lie. If there is a fret or two that has ruts that are much deeper than the rest the luthier will usually perform a partial refret to avoid removing unnecessary material which is wasteful and time consuming. Uneven fret wear causes buzzing which is all the more prominent when the set up is low. Folks who play with higher action and dig in more tend not to notice the buzzing.

If he knows how to do a fret dressing you have lost nothing. What you have gained is an excellent playing surface.

Your post does point up the importance of talking to the tech before the setup is performed and picking it up yourself so you can check it before you leave the shop, at least until the tech knows how you like it. This is especially important if you like your action a little higher or play hard. The average player wants the action as low as possible. In the absence of specific instructions to the contrary that is what will be done to the guitar.

In the mean time, call and talk to the tech. He should be willing to set it where you like it.

[heavyhitter]

Originally Posted by mrhardy

Do you know what the relief is set at, can you give us the numbers?

What is your action measurement at the 17th fret with the strings open.

What is the clearance of the strings at the first fret?


Does the bass "clank" evenly

Just how hard do you play?

I dont have a feeler gauge to tell.

The clanking from what I can tell is pretty even across the neck... maybe moreso near the pups, but pretty even.

I dont feel like I play really hard personally but my guitar buddies and a fellow bassist comment on how heavy I play.


I mostly get the clank on stuff like... "Rush, Tom Sawyer into" and when I gallop when doing Maiden songs.

[heavyhitter]

Originally Posted by jnuts1

& i don't think you lost any life out of the frets,

Cool, I should have specified that, the bass that I had setup was a new MIM and not my heavily used MIA with teh worn frets.

[heavyhitter]

All the other replies....
I was thinking about changing the truss rod or saddles myself but I think he will do it for free.

I put new pups and a Gotoh bridge on this bass that was setup. I tried setting it up myself but i sucked at it. I have 3 other basses that I have that need setups too. I hate to shell out $60 a pop for that. Pluse they require I use new strings on the setups.

Funny thing is.. the MIA I had for 12 year or so never been setup> I played it how I bought it and it has been fine every since. I just use the same guage strings and im golden.

[mrhardy]

Originally Posted by heavyhitter

The clanking from what I can tell is pretty even across the neck... maybe moreso near the pups, but pretty even.

That sounds good. It appears that he did a good job for you. Just have him tweak it to your playing style, and it should be great.

[dmusic148]

These things seldom go perfectly on the first try, even with a demonstration such as you provided. Just go back and explain. 5-10 minutes of tweaking is all it will take.

[heavyhitter]

Awesome thanks guys!

[lethargytartare]

A few other thoughts:

having had both MIM and MIA jazzers, the number 1 difference I always noticed was the neck and its ability to keep set up -- i think the MIAs have graphite rods in them? I could tell my MIM had slipped out of the wonderful zone after about a month or two; the MIA would feel like it held on to the setup for 8 months to a year before I wanted it reset-up...not really scientific, but I honestly had times when the MIM didn't get back to my house before I wanted the guy to tweak it again.

All in all, if you have many basses, and have any inclination, learning this skill is a life-saver. I suggest this: get a good guide off the web, try it on your cheaper basses, and you can always go back to the tech if you feel like you took the bass in to a place where you can't get it back to playability, or if you think you're on the brink of damaging it (e.g. if the truss starts getting tough to turn and you think it needs to).

Also, yeah, establish a rapport with your tech -- as you found out, the terms you used to describe your own playing don't mean the same thing to everyone, but with a little feedback, a good tech will make it work for you -- the good ones are like magicians...it really can be as much art as science, and if I could afford to have a tech do all my setups, you bet I would!

Rock on, man!

ltt

[Solarmist]

You should learn to do your own setups - its not hard. You will get it right where you want it ... perfection for free

READ >> http://www.tunemybass.com/bass_setup/
http://www.fender.com/support/basses.php
http://garywillis.com/pages/bass/bas...tupmanual.html
http://www.sadowsky.com/media/suppor...bass_setup.pdf

[Nedmundo]

Originally Posted by T-MOST

Simply raise the saddles for higher action and you are done.

I think this is right. It seems the tech did a great job due to the consistency up and down the neck, and with the tight tolerances others have mentioned, a small tweak at the saddles can eliminate the buzzing. Just try about a quarter turn on each, and be consistent so you maintain the same arc across the strings. If that doesn't work, take it back and I'm sure he'll take care of it in a few minutes.

By the way, good move with the Gotoh bridge on a MIM Fender. Made a huge difference on mine.

[mrhardy]

Originally Posted by Nedmundo

I think this is right. It seems the tech did a great job due to the consistency up and down the neck, and with the tight tolerances others have mentioned, a small tweak at the saddles can eliminate the buzzing. Just try about a quarter turn on each, and be consistent so you maintain the same arc across the strings. If that doesn't work, take it back and I'm sure he'll take care of it in a few minutes.

By the way, good move with the Gotoh bridge on a MIM Fender. Made a huge difference on mine.

Raising the saddles will have more pronounced effect at the heel end of the neck. Increasing relief will have a more pronounced effect at the headstock end of the neck.

Finding the right balance bewtween the two will yield optimum playability. To little or to much of either one has drawbacks that have to be considered.

[lethargytartare]

Here's a very interesting little read on relief amounts and effects on different fretting positions:
http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/neck_relief_1.htm