Putting a gloss finish on an Allparts neck?

bassteban · #1 06-20-2009, 10:58 AM

Recently snagged a sweet little black-on-black P(see sig), w/a maple Allparts neck. The neck is satin-finished, and I'd like to put a 70s-looking(tinted but not *reliced*)gloss over the existing fin. I'll contact Allparts too, but has anyone here ever done this?

ByF · #2 06-20-2009, 11:21 AM

What kind of finish does Allparts use?

Ed

bassteban · #3 06-20-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByF

What kind of finish does Allparts use?

Ed

What- just because I said I'd contact them now I have to? What's this- accountability?

I'll go look at the AP site & see what I can find out. Regardless, I'd certainly experiment on an inconspicuous spot- like the heel of the neck that is inside the neck pocket when assembled.

joeyl · #4 06-20-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassteban

Recently snagged a sweet little black-on-black P(see sig), w/a maple Allparts neck. The neck is satin-finished, and I'd like to put a 70s-looking(tinted but not *reliced*)gloss over the existing fin. I'll contact Allparts too, but has anyone here ever done this?

well minwax poly in a can will give a slight ambering of the neck, but that's on raw necks. reranch and stewmac sell tinted nitro lacquer but if you use this you will have to wait for the insanely long cure time ~3-4 weeks

hbarcat · #5 06-20-2009, 02:06 PM

I bought a StewMac neck and painted 3 layers of PPG Deltron DCU2002 (a very durable automotive clear) over it to give it a deep, high gloss finish. Tints are readily available. There's no reason why you can't do the same with an Allparts neck.

To prep the neck, I scuffed the surface with 400# paper. I then followed the regular procedures for spraying and finishing. If you're after an "authentic" finish you might want to use nitrocellulose lacquer (available from StewMac and it can also be tinted) but that's a bit more finicky. I've never used it because I think the modern poly paint is superior in every way. But that's just my opinion and some prefer the nitro.

bassteban · #6 06-21-2009, 12:27 AM

Thanks, hbarcat- I almost asked you this in your(Stew-Mac neck)FS ad but thought I should check my thread first.

I'm not concerned w/*authenticity*, I'm just after a fairly convincing appearance. Spray-can convenience would earn super bonus points; I have sprayed but don't have a gun anymore. That's the great appeal of Reranch stuff, but I'm not sure I can hang w/the crazy wait time on the nitro. Research continues...

ByF · #7 06-21-2009, 12:34 AM

I only asked about what Allparts uses, because you have to be careful about what you apply on top of something else. Nitro lacquer is a pretty hot solvent, and it will dissolve some finishes.

I have used amber tinted nitro lacquer in an aerosol can from Guitar ReRanch, and was pretty satisfied with it. You would probably want to coat it with clear gloss, too.

But if there is anything out there less toxic than nitro lacquer, I would look into it. That stuff is very bad for you and any living creatures in your vicinity.

Ed

bassteban · #8 06-21-2009, 12:42 AM

Thanks, ByF- I've emailed Allparts and will call if I don't hear from them next week. I am not dead-set on using nitro; I'll use thinned peanut butter if it looks right & lasts a few years.

Seriously though, I'm aware of the need to use compatible finishes together, and will do my homework before painting anything.

Edit: Just reread my initial response to you, ByF; didn't maen to come off as smart-ace as I may have; sorry. I appreciate your input.

hbarcat · #9 06-21-2009, 01:17 AM

With regard to the modern polys I mentioned, they are deadly toxic to breathe the fumes while spraying. You said you used to spray but no longer have the equipment so I assume that it wouldn't be an option for you. If it is an option, just remember about the safety issue. People die every year accidentally breathing fumes while spraying. They are a Central Nervous System depressant so they tend to knock you unconscious before you are even aware anything is wrong. Just a word to anyone reading this - not only the OP - it's absolutely essential to have proper respiration equipment and be knowledgeable in its use.

Anyway, if you are going to spray from a can or use a brush or wipe-on finish, I don't think you are going to be pleased with the results as compared to the stock satin finish that is already on the Allparts neck. Just my opinion, but unless you are going to be spraying with good equipment, it's almost impossible to get a smooth, even finish (especially with rattle cans). There may be some who actually can do a great job with them and maybe they can chime in with some details.

I'm curious about what you mean by "tinting" as getting the look you want to achieve. Do you mean you want to apply a finish that will make it look as if it's yellowed like a faded vintage nitrocellulose finish?

bassteban · #10 06-21-2009, 01:26 AM

Oh, if I were to go spray gun, the FIRST thing I'd grab would be a new mask. Gotta protect what brain cells I have left.

I might be able to gain access to a spray booth, if so I'd consider a cheap gun for this & other projects- I'm NOT after an orange peel disaster. I was just hoping to slap a quick gloss coat on the existing satin- doesn't sound as easy as I had hoped. Oh well, I'd much rather find all this out beforehand.

bassteban · #11 06-21-2009, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbarcat

I'm curious about what you mean by "tinting" as getting the look you want to achieve. Do you mean you want to apply a finish that will make it look as if it's yellowed like a faded vintage nitrocellulose finish?

Yes- Reranch mentions doing this. I'd like it to look aged, but I won't *relic*(add fake battlescars to)it. No offense to those who do, just not my thing this time around. I hope that doesn't sound too contradictory.

hbarcat · #12 06-21-2009, 01:41 AM

Okay, I understand. In that case I don't think that my idea of spraying a modern tinted clear on top of the existing finish would get you what you wanted. It would just look like a glossy, yellow tinted finish.

What about this? Strip the stock finish off the neck and prep the bare wood to look like what you want and then clear it. I'll bet that you could get really close to an aged vintage look with careful application of wipe-on materials. Of course this is a whole lot of work.

bassteban · #13 06-21-2009, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbarcat

Okay, I understand. In that case I don't think that my idea of spraying a modern tinted clear on top of the existing finish would get you what you wanted. It would just look like a glossy, yellow tinted finish.

What about this? Strip the stock finish off the neck and prep the bare wood to look like what you want and then clear it. I'll bet that you could get really close to an aged vintage look with careful application of wipe-on materials. Of course this is a whole lot of work.

I dunno- a glossy,(slightly)yellowed finish is- I think- what I'm after; OTOH, *a whole lot of work* makes me woozy.

I am pretty certainly steering clear of fully stripping- too much work- I'd never finish it, or brushing/wiping- I doubt I could get it smooth & glossy enough to justify the effort. It's just that a satin finish on maple looks incomplete to me.

Picky, picky...

ByF · #14 06-21-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassteban

Edit: Just reread my initial response to you, ByF; didn't maen to come off as smart-ace as I may have; sorry. I appreciate your input.

No offense taken.

Ed

ByF · #15 06-21-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbarcat

Just a word to anyone reading this - not only the OP - it's absolutely essential to have proper respiration equipment and be knowledgeable in its use.

Just my opinion, but unless you are going to be spraying with good equipment, it's almost impossible to get a smooth, even finish (especially with rattle cans). There may be some who actually can do a great job with them and maybe they can chime in with some details.

Excellent advice regarding proper equipment.

I think that it is possible to get a smooth glassy finish with nitro aerosol cans, but you have to go through all the same steps that you would with any other method--prep and seal the surface, apply the lacquer evenly, let it cure before sanding, and do all the wet sanding and polishing afterwards.

The thing about nitro is that every coat dissolves the coats beneath it, so it doesn't matter too much how you apply it. I have heard of people applying nitro lacquer with a brush--it flows out nice and smooth. I can only imagine that would get pretty messy if you try to apply multiple coats, though.

And of course it is the sanding and polishing that really gives you the gloss finish.

Ed

ByF · #16 06-21-2009, 11:13 AM

One other comment about the original post--in refinishing a neck, it is going to be important to be VERY CAREFUL if you do any sanding on the finish. Necks have lots of curves and sharp edges, and it is extremely easy to sand through to bare wood, in which case you either do a half-assed touch-up, or start over from the beginning. That may make you want to slam the neck into the nearest wall, or use it for batting practice (AKA relic'ing

).

Ed

hbarcat · #17 06-21-2009, 11:32 AM

Good points, ByF. The quality of the final product is in the details. I would say 90% is divided between prep work and finish work with the remaining 10% being the actual application of paint.

I recall there is a guy/company that does custom painting of guitars and basses. You just send him your body, neck or parts and he paints and finishes them just the way you want. There was a thread that discussed this and his rates seemed very reasonable and TB members who used him said they were pretty happy with the quality.

bassteban · #18 06-22-2009, 11:19 PM

I'd love to talk to that guy- Allparts emailed me today & was very non-committal. 'There are a number of different finishes you can use.'

Thanks- I was hoping for more of a *Don't use _______ or ______, but _______ should adhere well/not burst into flames/melt.* Not neccesarily brand names, just what types of finish would be compatible, or what is actually on their neck. They also advised me to 'talk to someone who does this on a regular basis.'

vejesse · #19 06-23-2009, 08:31 AM

Have you tried polishing up the finish that's on there now? It's probably polyurethane. Sometimes the satin finish is sprayed on pretty thin and they leave some orange peel. This would look bad if you tried to buff it but it's worth a try - maybe it would shine up. You can always steel wool it down again. If you do decide to spray some finish you can do a good job with rattle can lacquer from the hardware store if you put on enough coats - 12 coats or so. Get your self a decal and make a fake Fender neck.