putting lines on fretless neck?

[dereksilloway]

Hope this is the correct section for this.

Im looking to get a fretless bass.
Im completely new to fretless basses but would love to get one.
The one im looking at would be a Cort Curbow 5. My problem is they do not seem to have an option of a lined fretless. Is there any easy way I can put lines or get lines on the neck?

Any help or suggestions would be wonderful!

[enricogaletta]

Honestly isn't a easy work.
The best solution is get the work done from a luthier.
Cheers. Enrico
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[klaus486]

pAY AND THEN PLAY YOUR MONEYS WORTH OUT OF IT! oR JUST GO WITH OUT LINES...iT AINT WHAT YOU THINK........THE NOTES ARE ALLI inTHE SAME PLACE. you CAN JUST "DO" SO MUCH MORE WITH them.

[panamonte]

Don't bother putting lines on the neck. Seriously.

The bass will have dot markers where the frets would be which is really all you need. The secret of playing fretless is playing with your ears not your eyes, as you'll soon discover. And once you've nailed it - which you will, sooner than you expected - you'll realise that an unlined board looks a whole lot cooler and it makes people notice you're playing fretless

[Nev375]

Actually, you might be smarter to go without lines. You will still have side dots every other fret. Just put your fingers either right at those dots or halfway between them. Then listen to yourself to build accuracy in intonation.

I started out on fretless thinking lines were the way to go too, but what I found was they became more of a crutch and I was intonating by eye rather than ear. To be a good fretless player you ABSOLUTELY MUST develop your ear.

It's not that difficult, if you can tune one of your strings to an audible reference note and then tune your other strings to that one without using an electronic tuner, then you have what it takes to get started on refining your sense of pitch and playing unlined.

edit: panamonte beat me to it!

[fretless4string]

Originally Posted by panamonte

Don't bother putting lines on the neck. Seriously.

+1

- in the long run it is better not to have them because it forces you to rely on your ear. Play melodies and keep checking against open strings and harmonics.

[202dy]

Lined fretless fingerboards are simply regular fingerboards that have the kerfs filled with a contrasting material rather than a fret. The kerfs are accurate to approximately +/- .001". The work is performed on a blank fingerboard slab in a jig either by hand or on a table saw. The time to do it is before the fingerboard is glued to the neck.

Stabilizing the neck in the jig will be a chore. The back of the neck must be cradled in a curved caul or blocked with wedges. The neck, which is tapered, will have to be centered in a rectangular jig. Makes for an interesting afternoon.

Can it be done on a finished neck? Sure. Whether you choose to do it yourself or employ someone else, the person that does this must be highly skilled and comfortable working at very close tolerances. It will not be inexpensive.

[MHT75]

Something I did to help me on with positioning on upright bass was during practice I would find my positioning through octaves and harmonics . Then mark the side of the neck (not the finger board ) with chalk to give myself a rough visual.
If you have side dots as others have stated half the visual battle is won.
Do yourself a favor and train your ears and hands to the positioning
and have fun.

[grisezd]

If you're really stuck you can lay strips of tape for reference as I've seen violin and upright bass students do.

[1958Bassman]

If someone has the skill and really wants to put lines on their fingerboard, they can use a scale to measure the distance to each position and transfer it to the unmarked side of the board, then make a jig to clamp onto the neck so the edge will remain aligned with the marks. A fret saw is called that for a reason, although a saw with a straight edge can be used, too. The grooves don't need to be deep, and they can be filled with whatever works but the rest of the surface will need to be leveled afterward.

[Means2nEnd]

I am primarily a fretted player it just suites the music I play with my current band. I do however have a couple fretless basses and I prefer the lines. I don’t care whether or not it looks killer I would rather sound killer. I use them for practicing sort of hunched over when I’m standing I can’t really see the front of the fingerboard for the most part anyway.

Like it was said develop your ear and the side dots are a great reference obviously but if you do want to try it without screwing up anything Gary Brower a top notch repair guy out of San Francisco suggested to a good friend of mine to get a Sharpie silver paint marker with a narrow tip and draw partial or complete lines. It’s not permanent you can remove easily with steel wool or whatever but you can get a taste for it and if you prefer to remove later so be it. Gary said if you do a search with Google apparently there is a site with the correct measurements for different scale basses and you can measure it out and drawl them in and take off later. Simple, cheep, non permanent…..just my 2 cents.

Gary has a PLEK machine in his shop and quoted around $400 to do a perfect job installing them. I like lines and even a pro player like Bryan Beller who has a Lull fretless with lines told my same friend at a small gig at a private residence he has lines because he isn’t good enough on fretless so do what works for you.

[john grey]

Originally Posted by fretless4string

+1

- in the long run it is better not to have them because it forces you to rely on your ear. Play melodies and keep checking against open strings and harmonics.

I totally agree.

I have been playing fretted AND fretless for quite a few years and I have never owned a "lined" fretless.
First of all it REALLY DOES help your ear. and secondly (having lines) actually confuses you in practice. It also looks nice to have a clean unlined neck but that's beside the point.
Developing your ear to your instrument is so valuable that very few things can replace it.
Just look at how many individuals responded to leaving a clean, unlined neck; that's not an accident or simply a response to the looks of the neck - it's a very valuable concept.

[Ric5]

The low tech easy way is a white prismacolor pencil.



The wooden hand is not needed.

[dereksilloway]

WOW some super great info here guys.

Well the majority of the responses have made me feel rather confident that I do not need the fret lines. I wasnt totally award that the Curbow has dot markers on it (ive only played a fretted 5 string) so as said, I think that will help me out very much.
Also, I like the idea that by getting a fretless I will be developing and training my ear which is something I wasnt really thinking about or expecting would happen.

Considering that getting lines or having lines on this bass isnt even an option thanks to you all I have supreme confidence and loads of excitement to go out and purchase this bass.
Thanks very much guys for all your detailed and practical words and responses!
Derek

[Pilgrim]

Hey, tons of people have learned to play upright bass without lines - including me.

You can learn it - side dots will help.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by Means2nEnd

I am primarily a fretted player it just suites the music I play with my current band. I do however have a couple fretless basses and I prefer the lines. I don’t care whether or not it looks killer I would rather sound killer. I use them for practicing sort of hunched over when I’m standing I can’t really see the front of the fingerboard for the most part anyway.

Like it was said develop your ear and the side dots are a great reference obviously but if you do want to try it without screwing up anything Gary Brower a top notch repair guy out of San Francisco suggested to a good friend of mine to get a Sharpie silver paint marker with a narrow tip and draw partial or complete lines. It’s not permanent you can remove easily with steel wool or whatever but you can get a taste for it and if you prefer to remove later so be it. Gary said if you do a search with Google apparently there is a site with the correct measurements for different scale basses and you can measure it out and drawl them in and take off later. Simple, cheep, non permanent…..just my 2 cents.

Gary has a PLEK machine in his shop and quoted around $400 to do a perfect job installing them. I like lines and even a pro player like Bryan Beller who has a Lull fretless with lines told my same friend at a small gig at a private residence he has lines because he isn’t good enough on fretless so do what works for you.

$400 for fretlines? (Shaking head...)

Wait! PLEK fretlines! Now I understand!

[wheat]

Most fretless players don't like lines, but it's important to note a few exceptions: Steve Lawson, an excellent fretless player, prefers lines and maintains that they help his accuracy with pitch--even though he has very good ears.

Note also that Jaco Pastorius' main bass, being a formerly fretted bass which he converted to fretless, had lines. And no one would accuse Jaco of not having a good ear.

Still, rather than pay to have an unlined bass lined, I'd suggest purchasing a lined one in the first place. On the cheap, the Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass Fretless is lined, plays very nicely, and has a very Jaco groove to it. I've tried several of these in stores and I'm always pleasantly surprised at how good they sound:

Fender® Products

James
jamesnotjim.com

[donnercruz]

I bought a lined fretless before I started playing upright. Having since gotten comfortable without lines, I actually find the lines are more of a problem. I have to remind myself to play on the lines and not between them ( if I'm looking at the neck for some reason). I actually find it easier to stay in tune on my unlined fretless.

[darkstorm]

Originally Posted by JLS

$400 for fretlines? (Shaking head...)

Wait! PLEK fretlines! Now I understand!

Pleked fretless lines? Thats gotta be one of the the oddist use of a plek machine Ive ever heard of. So whens someone gonna make a fanned fret fretless?

[floatingaxe]

Originally Posted by donnercruz

I bought a lined fretless before I started playing upright. Having since gotten comfortable without lines, I actually find the lines are more of a problem. I have to remind myself to play on the lines and not between them ( if I'm looking at the neck for some reason). I actually find it easier to stay in tune on my unlined fretless.

I heard this a lot before I defretted my main bass and was worried about switching back and forth between fretted and fretless. So I just intonated my fretless so that the correct finger position is right behind the line just like it would be for fretted. No problems.
I used a more maple type color to fill the grooves. My problem with factory fretlesses is that they are only offered with white lines, not something a little less contrasting like maple.

I agree with those that say do what works for you. I find the lines help a lot when I have to move around a lot quickly on the fretboard. Like sliding up an octave and making sure I land in the right spot.
However, I don't fully trust my lines and play with a tuner always on to check my intonation as I play. This is especially important on long held notes where a few cents off would be noticed.