Questions about re-setting a wonky neck

[chunger]

Hello,

I have a new SX bass, and it looks like Mr. Man-with-the-hand-drill put the neck screws in diagonally, and the neck is on crooked.

On the neck side, the good thing about the screws going in at such a wonky angle is I will completely avoid the previous holes when setting new screws.

I plan to drill out the existing holes and dowel both sides (body and neck) to have a clean slate and re-set the neck. So, I went to the hardware store to see what kinds of dowels they had, and I came home with 3/16" and 1/4" dowels in Birch and Oak. I was wondering which dowels would work better for my situation (alder body and maple neck). Obviously none of this will be visible.

Also, I'm wondering what kind of glue would be best to use. I have titebond III and gorilla glue on hand at the moment. . .eh, also some loctite 5 min epoxy.

[202dy]

This is probably unnecessary surgery. Try this instead.

1. Leave the strings near concert pitch.
2. Loosen the neck screws.
3. Move the neck in the proper direction.
4. Make sure the strings are evenly spaced on the sides of the neck.
5. Tighten the screws.

The margin on the sides of the neck should be even the entire length of the neck.

The above is a simple repair for a simple problem. Counter-boring, plugging, and boring new mounting holes is an advanced technique and should be attempted only by those with woodworking or machining experience. A shop full tools including a drill press and a sled is a good idea, too.

If one is determined to do this, be advised that dowels are not the way to go. The screws will not hold well in long grain long term. Cross grain plugs should be cut from the same species and installed in the new holes.

[chunger]

I've updated the original post with a couple of pictures.

I'm not completely new to the shop as I have built my 6 string from scratch. . . but that was in college in the university's well equipped shop. I can get access to a drill press though.

The assembly process for the SX basses seems to be to just drill straight through both body and neck (no pilot holes in either) and throw screws straight in wherever they may land. This being the case, I cannot simply move the neck with the screws loose because there is no slack in the body holes. If I wish to retain the neck holes and shift the neck in the pocket, I will have to enlarge the body holes at least slightly.

Is that the best route?

[RMay]

First contact SX if result = FAIL follow the advice of 202dy.
I heard of this problem happening with the SX line as few necks are not fitted properly in the pocket leaving as much as 1/8" gap (4 business cards) on either the bass or the treble side of the neck. If there is no 'wiggle' room then go the dowel path. My advice would be to overdo it in terms of clamping and using caution, but I intend to not want to mess up the neck, drill through the fretboard or crush frets etc.

[chunger]

Contact with Kurt at Rondo Music has been made. He is always timely in his replies, so I have no doubt I will hear back from him tomorrow. I have expressed interested in a partial refund as I like all other aspects of this particular copy and it seems the neck pocket (without screws in) is in better shape than some of the other samples i've seen lately.

I know he will offer to take it back as a blanket policy, but depending on the extent of the partial refund offered (if any), I'd be interested in fixing this one. . . properly of course.

To that end, the please let me know if I'm off on the procedure.

1. Get a 1/4" straight plug cutter
2. Get some eastern maple and alder scraps
3. drill out existing holes with brad point bit
4. on neck, start inserting plugs coated in glue one on top of the other until the plugs bottom out. . .
5. let dry overnight
6. trim plugs flush

At this point, I'll have a solid base to work with on the neck.

The body does not need to support any threads, it just gets sandwiched between the neck plate and the neck and is loaded in compression. Do these also need to be plugged with side grain plugs? Or will doweling these be sufficient?

Another question is, will the bass be structurally ok with crooked screws as is in the long term? The easiest solution it seems would be to enlarge the existing holes a little bit in the direction the neck needs to move and then to fix as described above. If I feel the need, I can fill in the hole a little bit on one side only with a thin layer of epoxy if a tight screw fit is more desirable. A slightly crooked neck plate would be the only indication that something is off. . .well, and this post

[202dy]

You have an excellent grasp on the concepts. The methodology is sound. You may wish to create some small flutes on the plugs to allow excess glue to exit.

Plugging and boring the body may be overkill. Enlarging the holes slightly may be enough. Of course, if you have the time and the desire, go for it. Doweling is sufficient to create a sleeve in which the screw shaft to reside.

An angled screw in a joint is akin to toe nailing rough framing. Your house is just fine with the studs toe nailed together. The guitar will be fine with crooked screws.

Overall, enlarging the holes in the body and shifting the neck is the simplest way to repair the instrument. Consider this: A good repair shop would charge a fee equal to or more than the original cost of the instrument to bore, plug, and mount the neck.

[Chasarms]

OR, you could do this:

Installing threaded inserts (insert nuts) on a neck (long)

It seems less time consuming and ultimately superior, IMO. The only issue would be if a perfectly perpendicular over-sized bore would completely correct the angled existing holes.

[GlennW]

Originally Posted by chunger

The assembly process for the SX basses seems to be to just drill straight through both body and neck (no pilot holes in either) and throw screws straight in wherever they may land.

I came to the same conclusion on SX necks (except for the "straight" part). After the neck is free a screwdriver is still needed to remove the screws from the body.

Did you have about 1/8" between the neck heel and the body (visible after removing the pickguard with neck still attached)?

[Pilgrim]

To follow up on your early question, Titebond would probably be a better choice than Gorilla Glue, and leave a neater repair. It's plenty strong, easier to clean up, and it doesn't expand like Gorilla Glue. Also, ditto what 202dy said about cutting a groove/flute or two in the side of the plug to let excess glue escape.

[chunger]

UPDATE: Rondo refunded me $25. . . probably less than the repair needed on this bass, but I took it and figured I'd learn something fixing this thing up. There was only 1 more of these left in stock, so I went ahead and picked it up (they're cheap enough to hoard spares). . . just in case I royally botch this one.

Originally Posted by GlennW

Did you have about 1/8" between the neck heel and the body (visible after removing the pickguard with neck still attached)?

Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. . . It seemed a bit odd to me so I measured the scale length, and the bass looked a hair long to my eye at 34" in at the bridge. So, I figured I'd fix it 'til I broke it.

Here's the gap with a handy red arrow pointing at the spot that's holding up the works.



Luckily, since the method of establishing the SX neck pocket looks to be quite crude (don't know why they dont' just CNC all the pockets and neck screw holes), I figured I could follow the same manufacturing methodology to repair my particular binding point. So I set up a simple jig to route for clearance.



And here's the result. . . the right side of the picture (burnt part) is my work. . . where there is fire, there is chunger . . . I just touched the corner a little bit to let the neck settle deeper into the back of the pocket. I probably routed just a tad too far, but the way these are set up from the factory, it's not going to be a beauty contest under the pickguard, so I was emboldened to attempt the repair.



Now the neck pocket looks a bit more like the factory intended, and the scale measured from nut to bridge looks better (without the saddles adjusted all the way forward on the G string).



Yesterday, I went and picked up a set of straight edged plug cutters and a piece of Eastern rock maple and borrowed a friend's drill press for a few minutes to drill some plugs. I did a pile of 1/4" plugs and pile of 3/8" ones (in case I bugger the 1/4" ones). Since now, with the neck shifted back ~1/8" from the original position, the old screw holes most definitely do not line up, I'm going to properly plug the existing neck screw holes and re-set the neck. I'm going to play around with drilling out and plugging a piece of scrap before I go ahead and attempt neck surgery though. Also looking into the steel insert ideal just for kicks and giggles. . . I'm hoping these will get me on the right track:

http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/3604...readed-Inserts

Thanks for the tips thus far. . . I haven't done any precision-ish wood work in quite some time, so I'm taking it slow and thinking things through a bit before I cut anything. Does anyone have standard neck pocket specs? I'm trying to figure out if there is a "standard" for where to put the screw holes. If one exists, I should try to conform mine to that standard.

[Stuggi]

Make sure you leave a bit of a gap between the dowel/plug so you don't have to hammer it in with too much force. Also make sure that the glue you're using doesn't expand the wood like crazy.

I'd say go for it, a plugged neck with new holes drilled straight for the screws to bite into is IMHO the best fix next to threaded inserts.

[chunger]

Update:

Parts for threaded inserts are en-route, and I'm busy preppy everything else. . . in my living room of course

After doing some testing on scraps, I figured I would be ok hand drilling the wonky holes for 1/4" dowels on the body and plugs (which I made previously with a plug cutter on a friend's drill press) on the neck. I used eastern rock maple for the plugs.

I did the body first and one of the holes went a little wonky because I clamped in a weird spot and the drill hit the clamp. . . the dowel still fit ok, but I decided to use gorilla glue to get a little better hold and I could use a little bit of expansion. Plus, structurally, these are far less important than the neck ones. I wet the inside of the holes in the body with a smaller dowel, applied gorilla glue to the actual plug dowel and drove them in. . . the combination of the water in the hole and the expanding glue grabbed the dowels really tightly. I feel they are solid enough for my purposes. I'll let them set up over night and trim tomorrow.



Then, I turned my attention to the neck. The dowels that I had cut were a bit bigger than 1/4" and agian, in testing, they would not fit into hand drilled holes, so I decided to carefully hand drill following the existing wonky screw holes since I would have to sand the plugs individually to fit anyways.



Here's a sanded plug with one of the 2 glue blow-by slots I cut visible. I wouldn't have thought to do that except by advise on this thread, and honestly, I don't think these would have gone in without them. The first one may have been a bit tight, but I got a good feel for how much to sand the plugs as I went along. Luckily, nothing split as I tapped these in.



And the neck plugs are in. . . I used the red titebond stuff and I figure I'll let them set over night before I try to muck with shaving down the excess.



Ahh. . . the stressful part is over. I think I'm going to have to find a more stable drill press setup though locally to drill the new holes and set the neck inserts. The one I used to make the plugs was a bit funky, hard to adjust, and generally sketchy. But, for now, I have a clean slate to work with and that's a good feeling.