Radius gauges

[KingRazor]

I want to start doing my own setups. I'm looking for some good radius gauges.

I prefer under-string radius gauges because of this:



I don't like the bottom of the lowest string to be closer to the fretboard than the bottom of the highest string.

So I'm looking for some under-string radius gauges that will work with a variety of basses (I have no idea what basses I may buy in the future and want to be prepared).

I've looked at these: STEWMAC.COM : Understring Radius Gauges

I'm wondering if these would be worth getting. I know some basses have some non-standard radii (my SX has a 15 3/4" radius, lol wut?)

Do you think a set like that would cover all most of what I'll run into? Is it worth it to spend $25 on these or is there a cheaper DIY method (that doesn't require a lot of precision? I'm bad at precision)

Thanks for the help

[Randyt]

I use the stew mac. (like version #1) works good

[JLS]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

I want to start doing my own setups. I'm looking for some good radius gauges.

I prefer under-string radius gauges because of this:



I don't like the bottom of the lowest string to be closer to the fretboard than the bottom of the highest string.

So I'm looking for some under-string radius gauges that will work with a variety of basses (I have no idea what basses I may buy in the future and want to be prepared).

I've looked at these: STEWMAC.COM : Understring Radius Gauges

I'm wondering if these would be worth getting. I know some basses have some non-standard radii (my SX has a 15 3/4" radius, lol wut?)

Do you think a set like that would cover all most of what I'll run into? Is it worth it to spend $25 on these or is there a cheaper DIY method (that doesn't require a lot of precision? I'm bad at precision)

Thanks for the help

Frankly, I think these are a solution, looking for a problem. I eyeball, or use a #0670 Stewmac action gauge; even that's overkill.

[FunkMetalBass]

What is the point of the red line in the first picture? The strings bottoms are all exactly the same distance from the fretboard. Also, the above-string gauges were, I thought, only for fretboard radius measurements and not for string measurements.

Feeler gauges will get you there and be much nicer for setting your own action preference while maintaining fretboard radius.

[testing1two]

Radius gauges do not account for the fact that larger strings have a larger vibrational path and need more clearance from the frets compared to smaller strings. This is why virtually all published setup specifications call for higher action on the fat strings (typically 1/32" higher).

Personally, I think a 6" scale with 1/64" and 1/32" graduations is the only measuring tool you need.

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by testing1two

Radius gauges do not account for the fact that larger strings have a larger vibrational path and need more clearance from the frets compared to smaller strings. This is why virtually all published setup specifications call for higher action on the fat strings (typically 1/32" higher).

Personally, I think a 6" scale with 1/64" and 1/32" graduations is the only measuring tool you need.

Assuming two strings are under equal tension, what difference does its size make in it's vibrational amplitude? It shouldn't make a difference.

[testing1two]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

Assuming two strings are under equal tension, what difference does its size make in it's vibrational amplitude? It shouldn't make a difference.

That's an interesting hypothesis but 99% of the bass string sets on the market are not equal tension, so I think you're pointing out the exception not the rule. Personally, I have never played a bass where the E (or B) string action can be set as low as the G string so I would never use a radius gauge to set action, especially when I can do a more precise and repeatable job with a scale.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

What is the point of the red line in the first picture? The strings bottoms are all exactly the same distance from the fretboard.

Only if the fretboard is asymmetrical...

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Only if the fretboard is asymmetrical...

Erm, what? Imagine the fretboard is one giant circle with a 12" radius. The distance from the center to the bottom of any of those strings should be the same - that's the point of the gauge. The red line thus makes no sense.

Originally Posted by testing1two

That's an interesting hypothesis but 99% of the bass string sets on the market are not equal tension, so I think you're pointing out the exception not the rule. Personally, I have never played a bass where the E (or B) string action can be set as low as the G string so I would never use a radius gauge to set action, especially when I can do a more precise and repeatable job with a scale.

You should try Circle K's balanced tension strings. LLLOOOOWWW action low strings.

I wasn't really trying to prove anything, just looking for affirmation. A similar statement came up months ago, and my response was the same, but I've been milidly unsure about it.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

Erm, what? Imagine the fretboard is one giant circle with a 12" radius. The distance from the center to the bottom of any of those strings should be the same - that's the point of the gauge. The red line thus makes no sense.

I measure from the bottom of the strings to the fretboard, not from the middle of the strings.

If the measuring was all done from the center of the strings, the low strings would hit the frets sooner than the high strings, I don't like that.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

Assuming two strings are under equal tension, what difference does its size make in it's vibrational amplitude? It shouldn't make a difference.

The answer is "mass". Even if the strings were at equal tension, the greater mass of the larger diameter strings will cause larger vibrational amplitute.

[testing1two]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

You should try Circle K's balanced tension strings. LLLOOOOWWW action low strings.

I wasn't really trying to prove anything, just looking for affirmation. A similar statement came up months ago, and my response was the same, but I've been milidly unsure about it.

To further complicate things, LLLOOOOWWW action means high tension and stiffness, not necessarily equal tension. The increased tension lessens the vibrational amplitude of the strings which permits lower action but makes the strings less compliant (stiffer). On the opposite end of the spectrum Thomastik has used the balanced tension approach for years on their Jazz Flats and Jazz Rounds, but with much lower tension.

As Turnaround said, a string's vibrational amplitude is not just a function of tension but of string mass and stiffness. Therefore all 4 strings have different vibrational amplitudes and do not conform to a uniform radius.

Which leads us back to setting action using a scale so we can a) use existing specifications as a quick starting point and b) take measurements of the final settings once the action is adjusted to the player's preference. Then we have a reference if the bass ever goes out of adjustment. This same principles apply to using feeler gauges to set the neck relief. It's fast, precise and consistent.

[seanm]

I like the under-string radius gauges because I can use them above and below the strings and also to check fretboard radius without removing the strings. Plus they where cheaper

And KingRazor, those images are wrong. You pick a radius gauge which matches the fretboard radius. For a perfectly flat fretboard you use a ruler

You then measure from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret on the lowest and highest strings. Then use the radius gauge to set the middle strings. It is personal preference if you use the gauge above or below the strings.

P.S. Notice how I was careful not to mention strings by name or number? Just call me Mr P.C.!

[knuckle_head]

Originally Posted by testing1two

The increased tension lessens the vibrational amplitude of the strings which permits lower action but makes the strings less compliant (stiffer).

Not if they're supple in the first place. Greater mass -> greater amplitude because of greater inertia is indeed true though.

A radius gauge for the build is useful - a gauge for setup won't help much IMO.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by seanm

You pick a radius gauge which matches the fretboard radius. For a perfectly flat fretboard you use a ruler

Umm...duh. Where did I indicate that I wasn't aware of that?

[walterw]

i think that was humor (seen any perfectly flat bass fretboards lately?)

+many to skipping the radius gauge, it's useless (what if the neck has a compound radius?). just get a little metal machinist's ruler and measure each string's height off the fret directly.

sometimes, i've found you couldn't use the radius gauge if you wanted to. with 5-strings, that B often has to be higher than the other strings, to the point where the theoretical radius actually has to curve back up again under it.

[KingRazor]

Well, I guess I'm just going to get them, I'll get the action gauge too. I have all the other tools I believe I'll need for setups.

I'm going to start getting myself familiar with setups and then move on to learning how to make repairs and mods. Not sure I'll ever get to the stage of actually building from scratch, though.

[stingraysvt]

I like the radius gauges, it takes 1 second to get a visual on how far off you are, I typically shoot for the neck's radius, then fine adjust for taste, then set the intonation...

I'd own a set pretty quick if I was setting up more often, but I have a pretty awesome friend with all this stuff, and I always set my basses up at his store...

[walterw]

get the action gauge, but skip the radius thingies.

[stingraysvt]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Well, I guess I'm just going to get them, I'll get the action gauge too. I have all the other tools I believe I'll need for setups.

I'm going to start getting myself familiar with setups and then move on to learning how to make repairs and mods. Not sure I'll ever get to the stage of actually building from scratch, though.

You can test acton by pressing the 1st fret (LH index finger) and last fret on a string (use your RH ring finger or pinky) and "bounce" the middle of the string with your thumb on right hand to test how much relief you have in the neck. Works like a charm! And no tool to keep up with