Reality Check on String Height

Bongolation · #1 09-04-2011, 09:55 AM

I find I'm doubting my own judgment for some reason, so I thought I'd ask:

On a typical Precision with a small amount of relief and heavy .105" flats, what is your basic per-string (E through G) open clearances between fret and string at the 12th fret (or by other measurement -- if different, explain).

Thanks for your input on this.

THand · #2 09-04-2011, 11:06 AM

for a typical situation, I tend to start with @ 3/32" on the E string & @ 5/64" on the G.
Then I set A & D with a radius gauge (which is probably 9.5" on a modern Fender) following the fretboard radius. Tune-up, and see how it plays. Go higher or lower for personal preference and feel, but stay with the fretboard radius.

96tbird · #3 09-04-2011, 12:18 PM

dON'T DOUBT YOUR JUDGEMENT (OOPS CAP LOCK) if it feels right to you that's ALLLL that matters.

seanm · #4 09-04-2011, 12:37 PM

.105 are medium strings, so the Fender setup guide should be perfect for a good medium setup:

Fender® Support

At least this is a good starting point. You can tweak to taste

iamasmith · #5 09-04-2011, 01:10 PM

Well, that was fortuitous. I was finding some of the faster bits of that I was playing fairly cumbersome and was considering my action pretty high and awkward. The E string on mine I guess is around 5/32" (I work in mm better, about 4 mm) at the 12th fret so I guess the next stop will be to grab a feeler gauge and a radius curve.

Thanks THand.

THand · #6 09-04-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamasmith

Well, that was fortuitous. I was finding some of the faster bits of that I was playing fairly cumbersome and was considering my action pretty high and awkward. The E string on mine I guess is around 5/32" (I work in mm better, about 4 mm) at the 12th fret so I guess the next stop will be to grab a feeler gauge and a radius curve.

Thanks THand.

Thank Roger Sadowsky....

**nervous** · #7 09-04-2011, 09:51 PM

With normal relief I always like +/- 5/64 on the low side and 4/64 on the high. I can't always get there but I am always damned close. Generally speaking the low B needs at least 5/64 because of it's excursion. Other factors always come into play like how hard you play but I play pretty vigorously and these settings have served me well. I don't think I have ever had to be more than 6/64 (3/32) on any bass I have owned for either a B or E string.

THand · #8 09-04-2011, 10:03 PM

mmm a typical P bass with flats doesn't have a low B. Especially, since he said strings E thru G is what he needed measurements for.

Gulland65 · #9 09-04-2011, 10:15 PM

Not sure what the exact measure is, but I use a nickel as a spacer between my highest fret and the bottom of the strings

Bongolation · #10 09-05-2011, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gulland65

I use a nickel as a spacer

I was using a depth micrometer measuring from the top of the string to the top of the fret, subtracting the measured diameter of the string and I'm truing to +/- .0025"

Perhaps we represent the two extremes here.

I also suspect that adjusting to the 17th fret may be more common.

seanm · #11 09-05-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongolation

I was using a depth micrometer measuring from the top of the string to the top of the fret, subtracting the measured diameter of the string and I'm truing to +/- .0025"

Perhaps we represent the two extremes here.

I also suspect that adjusting to the 17th fret may be more common.

That sounds like a lot of work. But it made me think about larger "feeler" gauges. Has anybody tried using drill bits for string height? They come in handy 1/64th sizes (0.5mm sizes for those using metric).

Adjusting to the 17th fret is what Fender recommends, but Lakland recommends using the 12th fret.

It is interesting that both specify about the same size for the G string but slightly less for Lakland on the E string (11/128th! who measures to 1/128th?). Given that Fender is at 17th and Lakland at 12th the Fender setup should be every so slightly lower than the Lakland. I would have expected the opposite.

And, for the record, I use a ruler that is in 32ths and and guesstimate if I need a extra 64th. I find rulers in 64ths too "busy".

THand · #12 09-05-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongolation

I was using a depth micrometer measuring from the top of the string to the top of the fret, subtracting the measured diameter of the string and I'm truing to +/- .0025"

Perhaps we represent the two extremes here.

I also suspect that adjusting to the 17th fret may be more common.

Unless you are setting up for a super-light touch, as in so light, you need to use ramps to prevent digging in, I think what you are doing there is over-kill. I just don't see a P with flats needing that kind of precision(pardon the pun).
Just get the neck as straight as possible (mine usually back-bow slightly with the strings off--they pull it straight), then use a rule from the hardware store to set your string height along the radius. Radius gauge to keep it balanced, and then go by how it feels and plays....they all are a little different & respond differently, and technique comes into play here. You can't measure but to a certain point, after that it just matters how it sounds and plays.

This goes out the window if you are setting one up for sale. In that case, I would just set it up for higher action like Fender recommends...they recommend it for a reason. It may not be optimal for me, but it can accommodate more styles of players and increase the likelihood they will be happen with the purchase.

Bongolation · #13 09-05-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seanm

That sounds like a lot of work.

It is -- but it's accurate.

Quote:

Adjusting to the 17th fret is what Fender recommends, but Lakland recommends using the 12th fret.

It shouldn't really make any difference, ultimately, though the gap at the very widest point would be a more convenient spot to measure.

Quote:

And, for the record, I use a ruler that is in 32ths and and guesstimate if I need a extra 64th. I find rulers in 64ths too "busy".

I find rulers way too inaccurate due to parallax, and worse with tight radius fretboards. I've tried to use them, but it's just hopeless for me.

Bongolation · #14 09-05-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THand

This goes out the window if you are setting one up for sale. In that case, I would just set it up for higher action like Fender recommends...they recommend it for a reason.

Yes, it hides fret and neck faults, enda story.

guy n. cognito · #15 09-05-2011, 06:02 PM

Measurements are great for roughing in a setup, but final tweaks must be done by the player, based on the feel of the bass. I usually set my basses as low as I can play them comfortably, then measure for comparison sake. If fretwork is prohibiting proper action, then I get it fixed. No two basses will set up exactly the same....especially if you're using a micrometer.

Usually, my setups yield about 4/64th on the G up to 3/32nds on the E.

rymiraflores · #16 09-05-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamasmith

Well, that was fortuitous. I was finding some of the faster bits of that I was playing fairly cumbersome and was considering my action pretty high and awkward. The E string on mine I guess is around 5/32" (I work in mm better, about 4 mm) at the 12th fret so I guess the next stop will be to grab a feeler gauge and a radius curve.

Thanks THand.

wow that is high for me...I use TI flats and have 2mm low B and 1.5mm G

...I guess it depends not only on personal preference...I have a lght touch...players who dig in would have a hard time on my bass...But really( as in everything else about bass playing) there is only ! rule....do what YOU like best.

THand · #17 09-05-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongolation

Yes, it hides fret and neck faults, enda story.

Haha....I knew, you knew, what I was saying. I set the nail and you drove it home!

jrfrond · #18 09-06-2011, 08:40 AM

Don't be fooled by neck relief and string height. ANY guitar or bass will play and feel MUCH better with a dead-straight neck, even if the action much be set a bit higher. Relief makes it tougher to play, even with lower string height.

On a bass, the strings vibrate in a wider arc than a guitar, so relief is needed for some setups. However, the accuracy of the fretwork largely comes into play here. If a player wants a real "pussy setup" (my own technical term), then the frets need to be evaluated and addressed first.

F-Clef-Jef · #19 09-06-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongolation

I was using a depth micrometer measuring from the top of the string to the top of the fret, subtracting the measured diameter of the string and I'm truing to +/- .0025"

Perhaps we represent the two extremes here.

I also suspect that adjusting to the 17th fret may be more common.

I'm not sure what you mean by "truing", but I assume the .0025" measurement is not the string height. Right?

Can you elaborate on what that measurement is?

JTE · #20 09-06-2011, 02:41 PM

On my Sting Precsion with GHS Precision Flats 45/65/85/105 it's sitting at (first is with string open, second with it fretted at first fret because that removes the nut height from the equation):
E- 3/32" O 2/32" fretted
A- 3/32" O 2/32" fretted
D- 3/32" O 2/32" fretted
G- 2/32" O 3/64" fretted

The Fender VS '62 P with the same kind of strings is:
E- 3/32" O 3/32-" fretted
A- 3/32" O 2/32" fretted
D- 5/64" O 2/32" fretted
G- 2/32" O 2/32-" fretted

That's with under 1/32" relief measured with the E string fretted at 1st and last, measuring distance from top of 7th fret to the bottom of the E string.

John