A really dumb bridge question

[capnjim]

Like, why change them? Aren't old Fenders supposed to be the best sounding basses? I have several Fender type basses all with the same cheapo simple bridge. Can a new bridge really change the tone? All I ask from my bridge is to set the height and intonation.
I see tons of basses with badass bridges. pardon my ignorance, but, whats the point?

[Dogbertday]

because they're badass... haha sorry couldn;t resist

[NORCurley]

Speaking of bad questions.
I recently bought a Mexican Fender P. And after some

[NORCurley]

...sorry. Bad post
But I bought this Mexico Fender Precision and realised that the bridge was completely crappy, and didn't cope with my playingstyle at all. So I wonder if the Gotoh or Badass bridges will fit the screwholes of the MEXICAN Fenders. I've heard they fit perfectly with the AMERICAN ones, but there seems to be no info whether they fit the MEXICAN ones.

Anyone have experience on this?

[capnjim]

I just don't understand how a bridge can be "bad" as long as it has decent height adjusters and intonation screws, what else does it do?

[Parabolic Box]

Originally Posted by capnjim

Aren't old Fenders supposed to be the best sounding basses?

Not by a long shot.

[Thunderthumbs73]

Not a dumb question at all. A lot about basses and bass gear SHOULD be talked about, or at least to have myths debunked or at least questioned.

Some say a "good" bridge (by size, weight, material, construction, etc, etc, etc...) makes the bass sound better, but I'm not sure how you really quantify that. We all hear differently. Most importantly, if you're happy with your bridge, don't change it.

The key is to find out what you like. If necessary, experiment to see if you can find or do better. No matter what we can quantify and get into cold, hard numbers, we should always place the most importance on what sounds good to us, the individual, as opposed to some bass player orthodoxy where x percentage THINKS it's good so it MUST be good. You find that with all manner of things, bass-related.

I have no idea if a badass will make my bass sound better, and will likely never find out no matter how many will extol its virtues- I think my Fender basses sound fine as they are. And even if not, I am much more into having a stock, original Fender bass than I am modifying it (except for string changes!) in any way which would compromise its original condition. Someday I may buy a badass-equipped bass that has already been modded, or which came from the factory with that setup, however.

[Thunderthumbs73]

Originally Posted by capnjim

Aren't old Fenders supposed to be the best sounding basses?

You're not ignorant at all. It is a good question. But what is "best sounding?"

A Zon brand bass may be a physically superior bass (maybe "best?") insofar as sustain is concerned, by virtue of its construction techniques and materials. Yet, it might not be the best-sounding bass in certain circumstances.

I love the sound of certain basses in the store, or during private practice time, but sometimes those very same basses may not stand out or hold up in recording. Conversely, some basses that sound bad by themselves end up sounding great on record mixed in with certain bands.

Good luck with the search. And the journey.

[capnjim]

I guess by best, I mean the best hardware and set-up for each particular bass.
I mean you have the amp for all of your tone shaping, will swapping a bridge in any decently playing and sounding bass make it play, or sound, "better"?

[butchblack]

Originally Posted by capnjim

I guess by best, I mean the best hardware and set-up for each particular bass.
I mean you have the amp for all of your tone shaping, will swapping a bridge in any decently playing and sounding bass make it play, or sound, "better"?

It will make it sound different. Better is a very subjective term. A badass will usually increase the sustain on a note. Some people feel that the stock bridge is a bit wimpy, other's swear by it. Again the best advice is if you like the way it sounds, don't mess with it.

[Thunderthumbs73]

I honestly don't know. I can certainly admit that. I suppose the best way to figure it out is to get two of the same basses, as alike as possible in every way and adjustment, and one fitted with the badass, and one without.

I've never found my basses wanting for sound or playability. I'm not saying I have the cream of the crop. Maybe it's that I'm not that picky. Or maybe I'm lucky to feel what I have is particularly inhibiting in any way.

I think improving the player (ME!) will have a much more significant impact than any improvement in the instrument.

Also, about the amp: I'm sure people will differ with me, but I think the amp is for amplification of what sound, signal and sonic characteristics which are present in the instrument, and not to affect the tone itself. The tone should come from the player and the instrument. The amp should give those two things volume to be heard. I have all my tone knobs on the amp set flat, and actually except for a volume, I could probably do without any of them, knob or parametric eq. But that's just me.

Yeah, and different bridge might make the bass sound better. It is possible. Do you think your bass(es) sound bad, and if so why? A badass bridge might be a great thing, but also I know with any hobby, pastime, or interest, there can be hype. I don't want to be a part of a "hype machine." When I speak about products or things, I try to speak about the definitives (such as weight, which can't be spun without lying outright) as much as possible and leave that which is most subjective to the preferences and exploration of the individual. To help and advise, but not mislead.

[Widdershins]

Originally Posted by capnjim

I guess by best, I mean the best hardware and set-up for each particular bass.
I mean you have the amp for all of your tone shaping, will swapping a bridge in any decently playing and sounding bass make it play, or sound, "better"?

If your question is Fender is supposed to have best hardware and set-up for each particular bass.
Nope. They have pretty much stuck with the original designs which, at their time, facilitated cheap & easy mass production of a professional level instrument. It (the bridge) does its job just fine though.

As for making it sound "better" the answer is "maybe".

A Badass came on my HwyOne and I swapped it out just to see.
It did change the sound, but I could do the same thing with the mid knob on my amp. I put the Badass on another bass and didn't hear any difference.
On the HwyOne it just so happened that the change sounded usable to 'me'. But what does that mean for you?.....





exactly.

The point(and popularity) of Badass has already been addressed. It's a big piece of metal with the word BADASS on your bass.

[bassmanrocke]

The most likely change of a Gotoh or Badass is increased sustain due to added mass. That said, if your playing style is very fast with few ringing notes this may be no improvement for you at all. Additionally, if your bass already has good sustain, either because of or in spite of its original bridge, there is no need to make a swap. If you like to hold notes out longer than perhaps you should consider the change.

One nice thing about The Gotoh or Badass bridges is that if you make the change, no additional holes are placed in your bass. So you can always return them to original. Personally, I like the look, sound,and feel of a Gotoh bridge, so I have put them on several basses. I like the original Badass, but it is not a direct bolt on to a Fender, and the Badass II has edges that are too sharp for my taste,so I have only placed them on one bass,and ended up trading that one.

[fretlessman71]

Originally Posted by NORCurley

...sorry. Bad post
But I bought this Mexico Fender Precision and realised that the bridge was completely crappy, and didn't cope with my playingstyle at all. So I wonder if the Gotoh or Badass bridges will fit the screwholes of the MEXICAN Fenders. I've heard they fit perfectly with the AMERICAN ones, but there seems to be no info whether they fit the MEXICAN ones.

Anyone have experience on this?

Yes. They are a direct retrofit for the MIM as well as the MII and the MIA basses. I got one on a Squier P as we speak.

[fretlessman71]

Originally Posted by capnjim

I just don't understand how a bridge can be "bad" as long as it has decent height adjusters and intonation screws, what else does it do?

The other thing the bridge does is controls how much energy from the vibrating string is absorbed into the body. Badass bridges are made of a big heavy chunk of brass that is flat on the bottom, so there's very little to rattle around and take energy away from a vibrating string - thus more sustain occurs. However, that may not be the "vintage" sound someone is looking for.

It's all subjective - it's like saying mustard rules and that anyone who puts ketchup on their hot dog doesn't know a taste bud from a rose bud. Try it out; go with what you like.

I'm a big fan of heavy bridges, but my friend has a '62 Jazz (well-beaten up, too; the worst I've ever seen!) with a bridge that has rust older than I am on it still, and I wouldn't change a thing on that bass except the strings.

On a side note, has anyone noticed that the MIA basses now have a new style bridge, very reminiscent of a Badass? I guess you can improve on a good thing, eh?

[Thunderthumbs73]

Originally Posted by capnjim

I just don't understand how a bridge can be "bad" as long as it has decent height adjusters and intonation screws, what else does it do?

I don't think there are many truly bad bridge designs these days. Even on the very cheapest basses that can be bought new, they are largely functional and not in imminent need of replacement. Kinda like a paper clip at some point- it does what it does, and hard to make dramatic improvements at this stage. Not impossible, but definitely hard.

[JTE]

"I suppose the best way to figure it out is to get two of the same basses, as alike as possible in every way and adjustment, and one fitted with the badass, and one without." Nope, that's still too many variables. The way to tell would be to put the two different bridges on the SAME instrument with the same strings. And swap back and forth several times. That eliminates just about as many varialbes as we can.

But, to the OP's point. I'm one who likes the stock Fender bridge. It works functionally as it should, it's reliable (I've never had problems on any of my Fenders from 1973 on with the saddles falling, but I know it's a common problem). Here's the deal with the changes historically. Leo Quann designed the original Badass for Gibson basses that had a really shallow neck set, and their stock bridges were very flimsy. They often had nylon saddles and were difficult to adjusts. So he designed the Badass. It's design gave more sustain, and excellent adjustability.

People started wanting to hotrod their Fenderbasses. Why? Because. they could in some cases. In many cases it was because the new basses didn't sound nearly as good as the old ones. In some cases it was because they were looking for more bite. Whatever, there were a lot of Fenders that had the original Bad Ass installed. But to do that you had to route out the body. So eventually Quann designed the BA II for direct replacement in Fenders. This was the late '70s and early '80s where mass and brass were sought after for more sustain (like sustain was critical).

Some folks don't like the way a stock Fender bridge works, some don't like the looks ("it looks wimpy"), etc. It's all for the individual to decide for themselves. I don't beleive the bridge makes a huge difference, but it does make a sonic difference one can generally hear. A BAII generally does allow more sustain, and it also generally sound brighter. I don't think it decreases low end (like some detractors claim), but I suspect that the increased high end response is interpreted by them as a reducition in lows.

Bottom line to me is that I don't pay much attention to the bridge on instruments as long as they are easily adjustable and they're stable.

YMMV

jte

[Pilgrim]

I have never seen any shortcomings of the 4-saddle classic Fender bridge. It offers plenty of adjustment, gives a secure connection, and works nicely.

Whether it sounds 'best' is something you'll have people argue about ad infinitum. But it DOES sound like a Fender. If you want your bass to sound like a Fender, it logically follows that it's a good bridge to use.

There are lots of folks that can't stand leaving an instrument alone - they have to mess around with it. Not me. Personally, I don't change stuff like bridges and tuners unless they malfunction.

[RED5]

Originally Posted by capnjim

I just don't understand how a bridge can be "bad" as long as it has decent height adjusters and intonation screws, what else does it do?

Redirect "BAD" to "DIFFERENT" and it becomes clear. I refuse to believe that unless it's broken,inoperative or causing you distress? It's not "BAD"

[JimK]

Originally Posted by capnjim

I just don't understand how a bridge can be "bad" as long as it has decent height adjusters and intonation screws, what else does it do?

There's this Chuck Rainey interview from a '70s Guitar Player mag...and he was known for playing a P-bass...about the Fender bridge, he sez-
"...everyone that has one, has replaced it". Then he went on about the thumb rest's location (at the time, it resided below the "G"-string)...everyone moves it up above the "E"-string. He bemoaned the fact that Fender was a GUITAR company & needed to hire a commission of bass players to offer suggestions.

Anyway-
I just finally replaced the bridge on my "reborn" '64 P-bass...I was never a fan of those old bridges, either. Basically, I do not like threading the string through the holes...
I briefly pondered buying a Suhr bass...then I thought, "Damn, right off the bat, I will need to replace that bridge".