Is this really how repair techs are supposed to handle fret filing?

totallyfrozen · #1 09-01-2010, 12:24 AM

So, I was talking to a couple of guitar repair techs today about having sharp fret ends smoothed out. They said they can do it but then apply a "french polish" to the side of the neck because they will inevitably end up hitting the wood a little bit while filing the frets. I've never heard of this before, but I've also never talked to anyone about how frets are smoothed out.

So, is this normal?
Is it to be expected that a tech will remove some of the finish off the neck by scuffing it a little bit while working the frets?

..and it is also normally expected that a shellac (via french polishing) would be applied to the area?

One more question: How durable is a french polished shellac on a neck?

jumbosilverette · #2 09-01-2010, 12:59 AM

If they lay tape alongside the neck (not just between the frets) and apply a deft touch with the file, you shouldn't need a refinish. That's been my experience anyway.

mongo2 · #3 09-01-2010, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totallyfrozen

One more question: How durable is a french polished shellac on a neck?

It's very easy to re-apply if it does wear.

Turnaround · #4 09-01-2010, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by totallyfrozen

One more question: How durable is a french polished shellac on a neck?

I wouldn't assume that it is shellac just because the term "french polish" was used. French Polishing is a means of applying a finish, not necessarily the material used. I often apply lacquer by rubbing it on, french polish style, especially on small repair areas.

johnk_10 · #5 09-01-2010, 06:06 AM

i've never had to touch up the finish or apply any french polish/shellac after a fret dress, and i've done 10's of thousands of them. and i've never heard of anyone else of having to do it either.

totallyfrozen · #6 09-01-2010, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turnaround

I wouldn't assume that it is shellac just because the term "french polish" was used. French Polishing is a means of applying a finish, not necessarily the material used. I often apply lacquer by rubbing it on, french polish style, especially on small repair areas.

Maybe my OP wasn't clear enough to indicate this, but I do understand what "french polish" means. As far as the material used, they told me they use a shellac.

totallyfrozen · #7 09-01-2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

i've never had to touch up the finish or apply any french polish/shellac after a fret dress, and i've done 10's of thousands of them. and i've never heard of anyone else of having to do it either.

Yeah, I thought something didn't sound quite right...but what do I know? I'm not a repair tech, luthier, or even a guy who does woodwork as a hobby. I thought that maybe this is just the way things are done because this shop is the authorized Martin repair center and the guy has years experience building and repairing guitars.

Maybe they just work a little too fast. I suppose that might be why they need to touch stuff up?

C.Linton · #8 09-01-2010, 08:15 AM

I don't know, it could be just the way these people do it. I'm sure repair techniques are not all necessarily exactly the same for every repair tech. That is, unless they are charging you extra for this. Then, I could understand you being a little wary. You didn't specify, are they indeed charging extra?

202dy · #9 09-01-2010, 08:24 AM

This is pretty typical when doing fret work. Speed has little to do with it.

If the goal is file the frets absolutely flush with the side of the fingerboard, tape doesn't work. Taping the side of the neck does not allow the metal to be filed flush with the wood. The tape has thickness, no matter how thin the tape. It acts like a shim that holds the file away from the wood. That is not to say that the fret ends cannot be made smooth with the tape method, but they will not be flush and even without a lot of hand work on the individual frets.

Trimming the fret ends naked, as it were, always has a bit of risk in it. A light touch is needed with the file. Even then, a small, sharp piece of metal can get lodged in the teeth of the file and cause a minute scratch in the finish. Keeping a file card on the bench and using it periodically keeps this to a minimum. Sometimes it works. Sometimes there will be a scratch or two.

On a modern poly finish, small scratches can be buffed out by hand using Micromesh abrasives and some automotive compounds. Deeper marks, usually from a file that slips, can be drop filled with CA glue. Nitro finishes tend to be thinner, so buffing takes a careful hand. Drop filling is accomplished with lacquer instead of glue.

French polishing can be done with either nitro or shellac. When done correctly, they minimize or eliminate buffing. That is always a relief on an old lacquer finish.

totallyfrozen · #10 09-01-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.Linton

I don't know, it could be just the way these people do it. I'm sure repair techniques are not all necessarily exactly the same for every repair tech. That is, unless they are charging you extra for this. Then, I could understand you being a little wary. You didn't specify, are they indeed charging extra?

They said that touch up is considered part of a fret job and he doesn't charge separately for it.

TGLbass · #11 09-01-2010, 08:41 PM

I've had to do that with a few Fender Mexican and Squier guitars. I didn't have a problem using tape. If you go slow it's not that tuff. I don't do it for a living. I don't have a bunch of guitars I have to get done. I can take my time. I've seen a drafting scribing/scetching tool that is made from thin metal and has slots in it. The slots look just wide enough to fit a fret end. Next time I have to do it I'll get one of those. I don't think one can file thru the metal.

totallyfrozen · #12 09-01-2010, 09:15 PM

Well, to clarify (and be fair). I asked the guy today to explain his french polishing system that he does with the fret filing. He said that he actually rarely has to do any polishing. He said it's his policy to inform customers of the possibility so that they know what to expect and can ask questions about it. He said that rather than simply doing the french polishing to a gloss, he makes it match the rest of the neck. So if the neck has a matte finish, he said, he'll use a light steel wool to buff the finish to a matching matte finish. If it's glossy, then he'll make it glossy.

I didn't get to talk to him much yesterday because he had to leave so I hadn't learned about all this from him when I posted the OP. Anyway, I'm sure there are other TB'ers who may have heard of "french polishing" and weren't sure what it was about so I imagine this thread can help someone (even if it's mostly just me asking stupid questions).

Please share anymore insiights or experiences you have with fret filing work...I'm still trying to learn about it.

TGLbass · #13 09-04-2010, 10:23 PM

I checked out some Roadworn Teles and Strats last year at a Guitar Center and the fret ends were so sharp that there was no way you wouldn't get sliced.. I've had the side of my finger cut from sharp frets on Mexican guitars before. However , I now own a Roadworn P bass that doesn't have the problem. It was odd that all the ( 4 or 5) Roadworns I tried at that Guitar Center had the same problem. Maybe just a fluke?

totallyfrozen · #14 09-05-2010, 07:16 PM

Well, after talking to Mike Fleck of Fleck Guitar Repair here, I went ahead and had the frets on my bass flushed. He did a VERY good job and ended up not needing to do ANY touch up or french polishing to the neck. Had him adjust the action and the saddles and intonate it while he was at it. The bass plays very comfortably and easily now. Nice low action (I love a low aciton). I raised the pickups just a couple milimeters to bring up my volume a bit and now it sounds VERY punchy and nice!

totallyfrozen · #15 09-05-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGLbass

I checked out some Roadworn Teles and Strats last year at a Guitar Center and the fret ends were so sharp that there was no way you wouldn't get sliced.. I've had the side of my finger cut from sharp frets on Mexican guitars before. However , I now own a Roadworn P bass that doesn't have the problem. It was odd that all the ( 4 or 5) Roadworns I tried at that Guitar Center had the same problem. Maybe just a fluke?

I don't know that I would call it a fluke really. Wood swells and shrinks with changes in humidity and if those instruments were shipped from another part of the country then it's possible the wood shrank a bit and exposed the fret ends. It's also possible that they escaped the factory with a bad fret job. Alaska is VERY, VERY dry. Any instrument you buy here needs a set up or adjustment to compensate for the drying of the wood. Could be the same deal at your GC.