Redrilling neck mounting holes in neck pocket, what method

[Rokoko]

Hi all

i have a old squier body that im slapping a allparts neck on. Nicke Musicman pickup/ tru oil finish thing going on... but the mounting holes make the neck sit bout 1/4-1/8" away from the body, and even worse it has a tilt so the strings are quite a bit off center.

So my plan of action is to borrow the drillpress at work to drill new holes. But what is the best solution for the old ones:

Fill them with wood filler or wood glue/sawdust
glue a wood dowel in?

Any experience or tips is much appreciated.

[joeyl]

drill press is a good start to prevent crooked screw holes.

Never use wood filler or sawdust, unless the new holes will not be anywhere near the old ones, which I doubt.
Maple dowel is good but a maple plug, where the grain lines would match the direction of the neck would be even better.

before drilling, make sure the neck is aligned by stringing it and clamp it in place with some quick clamps. Then use a brad point bit and mark the location using the screw holes of the body.

[Rokoko]

Right that sounds good, but i plan on redrilling the body (which isnt fender standard and has crooked holes) but i guess the advice goes for bodyredrilling as well

[Turnaround]

Since you are going to redrill the body rather than the neck, it's not critical to use a wood plug that aligns the grain with that of the body - a dowel will be fine. The problem will be how to line up the body holes with those in the neck. Have you figured out how you will do that?

[Rokoko]

Thought i might make a cardboard template from my fender us, check that the neck aligns properly when seated fully in the pocket and start by drilling small holes, check the fit, then increase drill bit size.

[joeyl]

take some nails that fit in the neck screw holes, cut their heads off, put them in screw holes with the point facing outward, press the neck into pocket, and the nails will show you where to drill: tadaaa!

[testing1two]

Technically you shouldn't need to re-drill the body unless you can't get a neck plate to fit. Just plug the neck holes with dowels & wood glue. Then fit the neck in the neck pocket and mark & drill the new neck holes in a drill press (or clamp the neck and body together and drill the neck holes with a hand drill using the body holes as a guide to keep the drill bit straight). Put a piece of masking tape on the bit as a depth stop so you don't drill too far.

[Rokoko]

sorry to be stubborn, but why shouldn't i redrill the body when it is clearly the body that doesn't match up to standard specs. Would it be structually unsound to redrill body vs neck. (ps im leaning towards drilling the neck to match the body if i get hold of a undrilled neck)

[testing1two]

Originally Posted by Rokoko

sorry to be stubborn, but why shouldn't i redrill the body when it is clearly the body that doesn't match up to standard specs. Would it be structually unsound to redrill body vs neck. (ps im leaning towards drilling the neck to match the body if i get hold of a undrilled neck)

Plugging the body holes and re-drilling is structurally ok provided you are using hardwood dowels and you don't enlarge the holes too much or get close to the edge of the body. However this will be a visible repair meaning it won't be entirely concealed by the neck plate. If your plans include a refinish then sure, go the extra mile to make everything look stock. Functionally, what really matters is that the neck pocket and the bridge are correctly aligned on the body and the neck screw holes are positioned so that the screws won't end up too close to the edges of the neck. Everything else is cosmetic.

[walterw]

there is an argument that if the (nicer) neck holes are "right" while the (cheaper) body's holes are "wrong", it becomes worthwhile to mod the "wrong" part to fit. that way, the neck could later be swapped onto a nicer body without any trouble.

[ThudThudThud]

If you have a drill press available. what about the threaded-inserts/machine screws idea?
I went so far as to use string-through-body ferrules in lieu of a neck plate. The machine bolts sit inside the ferrules.

[testing1two]

Originally Posted by walterw

there is an argument that if the (nicer) neck holes are "right" while the (cheaper) body's holes are "wrong", it becomes worthwhile to mod the "wrong" part to fit. that way, the neck could later be swapped onto a nicer body without any trouble.

A most valid point.

[96tbird]

OK let me get this straight, the body holes don't line up with the neck holes and bind the neck in the pocket so you can't tighten it down?

If that's so, just open up the body holes a drill size up since they are so very close already. As has been discussed by a luthier on TB, friction between the pocket and the back of the neck hold the neck from shifting. Therefore the diameter of the body holes do nothing, the screw clamp force from the steel body plate pulling on the neck does all the work. If you are worried about shifting, drop a piece of brass screen in the pocket to increase friction. My Gibson G-3 has this from the factory. As well, the body holes are large enough that the bolt slops around freely in it. The neck has factory threaded inserts in it (but that makes no difference if you only have screws into wood). Once tightened that neck never moves. Plus you have plenty of give to shift the neck and align it properly.

I have done this to my Epi Bird which the screws were threaded through the body into the neck. The factory does this to save time. Clamp neck to body, drill pilot holes, shoot screws. So when you try to reassemble it's a PIA to get the neck flat in the pocket. I drilled the holes so the screws pass easily through the body. Now I can torque it right down.

Some may question what I say, but I would question how much woodworking they have ever done. and how many instruments that have threaded inserts in the neck from factory they have taken apart and looked at the construction. It works, inserts or not. This is how it is. Bass construction is simply fine, solid wood furniture with strings on it, nothing more as far as the body neck joint is concerned. Frets, nuts and bridges are entirely another matter but merely attached to that basic piece of furniture!.

[Rokoko]

just to clarify:

i can tighten the neck so i can properly string tune and play it. But it clearly sits a few degrees to one side resulting in a visibly off center neck. furthermore the holes in the pocket are 5mm further away from the body than they should be so i get a gap at the heel. I know it acoustically wont matter much, but when in allready getting ready to drill, then im looking for a solid solution.

The idea of widening the holes and using inserts is quite intrigueing, esp because ill be able to use the neck on another body in the future.

BTW could you explain what "brass screen" is. My tool-english is quite limited, being a danish psychologist

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Rokoko

just to clarify:

i can tighten the neck so i can properly string tune and play it. But it clearly sits a few degrees to one side resulting in a visibly off center neck. furthermore the holes in the pocket are 5mm further away from the body than they should be so i get a gap at the heel.

The standard remedy for this is to leave the neck just loose enough that you can push and tug it into the desired position, then tighten the neck screws. Much easier than plugging and re-drilling. The screw holes would have to be pretty far off to prevent this...but of course, it's possible.

[John Wentzien]

Originally Posted by 96tbird

OK let me get this straight, the body holes don't line up with the neck holes and bind the neck in the pocket so you can't tighten it down?

If that's so, just open up the body holes a drill size up since they are so very close already. As has been discussed by a luthier on TB, friction between the pocket and the back of the neck hold the neck from shifting. Therefore the diameter of the body holes do nothing, the screw clamp force from the steel body plate pulling on the neck does all the work. If you are worried about shifting, drop a piece of brass screen in the pocket to increase friction. My Gibson G-3 has this from the factory. As well, the body holes are large enough that the bolt slops around freely in it. The neck has factory threaded inserts in it (but that makes no difference if you only have screws into wood). Once tightened that neck never moves. Plus you have plenty of give to shift the neck and align it properly.

I have done this to my Epi Bird which the screws were threaded through the body into the neck. The factory does this to save time. Clamp neck to body, drill pilot holes, shoot screws. So when you try to reassemble it's a PIA to get the neck flat in the pocket. I drilled the holes so the screws pass easily through the body. Now I can torque it right down.

Some may question what I say, but I would question how much woodworking they have ever done. and how many instruments that have threaded inserts in the neck from factory they have taken apart and looked at the construction. It works, inserts or not. This is how it is. Bass construction is simply fine, solid wood furniture with strings on it, nothing more as far as the body neck joint is concerned. Frets, nuts and bridges are entirely another matter but merely attached to that basic piece of furniture!.

+1

[96tbird]

Brass screen.

Same as window screen but made of brass. If you are enlightened, you can get a couple small round ones at your "smoke accessory" shop! LOL.

Stainless steel faucet screens (plumbing shop) will work as well. Drop two in the pocket and tighten down.

Redrill is necessary if you want the neck all the way in the pocket as you s ay. Sorry I misunderstood where the gap was. It may throw intonation out so make sure you have enough adjustment room on your bridge. That small of a gap shouldn't be too difficult to work with.

I'll add that 5 mm out you probably should plug and redrill the body. Standard hardwood dowel will be fine.

[Electricblue]

Originally Posted by ThudThudThud

If you have a drill press available. what about the threaded-inserts/machine screws idea?
I went so far as to use string-through-body ferrules in lieu of a neck plate. The machine bolts sit inside the ferrules.

With machined screws, its hard to judge the tightness of the bolts, as you dont get the same resistance that you get with woodscrews.

[96tbird]

Originally Posted by Electricblue

With machined screws, its hard to judge the tightness of the bolts, as you dont get the same resistance that you get with woodscrews.

If they are Phillips head, the driver torques out of the head when sufficiently tight. That will occur before any damage is done to the wood components.