Refret gone wrong... HELP!

[VinKreepo]

Okay, before anyone gives me the "get a job and save for a refret" clause... (1) I work at both my college and a church, and (2) with the economy and Christmas, any money I earn goes to gas, food, family, or presents.

With that said, I traded a fellow TB'er for his defretted Ibanez K5. I love a fretless, but this bass needs the frets back. The fretboard was perfect as far as radius and shape so I didn't bother with it. I cleaned out the wood filler with an extremely thin blade and glued back any chips.

So I ordered "pre-bent" frets off eBay... bad mistake. Then, I tapped them gently to get them to almost the exact radius of the board with a tiny bit of space in the middle between the board and fret tangs. Then, I made my worst mistake... I tapped the frets in the middle first. So as you can guess, the fret ends are up a lil. So what is my best option for getting the frets to set right without pulling up the frets (the board slots are almost too wide).

Use an iron/soldering iron on them and then press them with the "drill press technique? Heat 'n' hammer? Have to pull em out?

I don't have the money to get a refretting kit, but I just found my dad's old drill press and I have access to a variety of clamps and files. I can make a radius block or whatnot for the press so that isn't a problem. I just want some feedback from the pros here at TB

Thanks ya'll! Any help is appreciated!

[202dy]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

Okay, before anyone gives me the "get a job and save for a refret" clause... (1) I work at both my college and a church, and (2) with the economy and Christmas, any money I earn goes to gas, food, family, or presents.

With that said, I traded a fellow TB'er for his defretted Ibanez K5. I love a fretless, but this bass needs the frets back. The fretboard was perfect as far as radius and shape so I didn't bother with it. I cleaned out the wood filler with an extremely thin blade and glued back any chips.

So I ordered "pre-bent" frets off eBay... bad mistake. Then, I tapped them gently to get them to almost the exact radius of the board with a tiny bit of space in the middle between the board and fret tangs. Then, I made my worst mistake... I tapped the frets in the middle first. So as you can guess, the fret ends are up a lil. So what is my best option for getting the frets to set right without pulling up the frets (the board slots are almost too wide).

Use an iron/soldering iron on them and then press them with the "drill press technique? Heat 'n' hammer? Have to pull em out?

I don't have the money to get a refretting kit, but I just found my dad's old drill press and I have access to a variety of clamps and files. I can make a radius block or whatnot for the press so that isn't a problem. I just want some feedback from the pros here at TB

Thanks ya'll! Any help is appreciated!

It is good that you are industrious. This is what you don't want to hear.

Fretwork is advanced luthiery. It is a game of thousandths. It is done by people who have experienced hands and the right tools. As a service, it is one of the more expensive repairs. Most luthiers have hundreds of dollars invested in the tools they use to remove, replace, bevel, level, crown, and polish frets.

There is nothing wrong with "pre" bent frets per se. Fret wire is radiused before installing. Actually, it is usually bent to to a tighter radius than the finger board. This allows the fret ends to be seated and then wedged as the hammer strokes move toward the center.

Reusing frets that have been previously installed is a fools mission. The time spent salvaging the wire far outweighs the cost of new fret wire.

At a minimum, fretwork requires a couple of good flat files or a flat bar that will accept adhesive backed sandpaper. Flat means really flat: plus or minus a half a thousandth or so. Crowning can be accomplished with a three corner file. The edges are usually ground flat so as to not cut into the fingerboard. A precision straight edge is also an essential tool.

Given that you acquire the tooling, the next task is to practice on scrap. Get a few junk guitars and practice leveling and crowning. Or get a piece of maple, saw some kerfs into it and install the frets and level, crown and polish.

That is the Cliff's Notes version.

The most important part of a fret job is hand skill. Fret work is only for the seriously handy. If you have to search for tools in kitchen drawers, consider changing a tire as working on a car, or think a thirty second of an inch is really small, take your guitar to a pro.

[VinKreepo]

Ah I get what you mean. I have all of the above as far as tools... but yes I have shaky hands. I'd get a new neck... but alas, the K5 isn't compatible with any other necks... LUCKY ME

Thanks man... I guess I'll hold off till after Christmas... funny how there's a K5 on ebay for the same cost of a refret right now. lol

[jumbodbassman]

get a good luthier book and try again. little fast drying clue in the slots helps too...

Dan Erliwhin??? book is pretty good

[walterw]

Originally Posted by jumbodbassman

little fast drying clue in the slots helps too...

freudian slip?

anyway, yes, the dan erlewine books are a good place to start.

otherwise, it's like, "my transmission started acting funny, so i took it apart and now there's all these little parts everywhere. how can i fix it myself?"

[bassbenj]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

Okay, before anyone gives me the "get a job and save for a refret" clause... (1) I work at both my college and a church, and (2) with the economy and Christmas, any money I earn goes to gas, food, family, or presents.

With that said, I traded a fellow TB'er for his defretted Ibanez K5. I love a fretless, but this bass needs the frets back. The fretboard was perfect as far as radius and shape so I didn't bother with it. I cleaned out the wood filler with an extremely thin blade and glued back any chips.

So I ordered "pre-bent" frets off eBay... bad mistake. Then, I tapped them gently to get them to almost the exact radius of the board with a tiny bit of space in the middle between the board and fret tangs. Then, I made my worst mistake... I tapped the frets in the middle first. So as you can guess, the fret ends are up a lil. So what is my best option for getting the frets to set right without pulling up the frets (the board slots are almost too wide).

Use an iron/soldering iron on them and then press them with the "drill press technique? Heat 'n' hammer? Have to pull em out?

I don't have the money to get a refretting kit, but I just found my dad's old drill press and I have access to a variety of clamps and files. I can make a radius block or whatnot for the press so that isn't a problem. I just want some feedback from the pros here at TB

Thanks ya'll! Any help is appreciated!

Everybody's advice is excellent...but given you are sort of half way there and in disaster mode already, if it were my bass what I'd try to "save" the job would be to try to press the frets completely into place. Not "hammer" but PRESS. Rather than a drill press I personally would use a gigantic vise. (I have one I use for all kinds of pressing operations) The advantage of the vice is that the screw action gives you really slow control of pressure and also lets you develop as much pressure as you might ever need. (Works really well for cracking black walnuts too!). But the operative word here is CONTROL!

The key of course is you'll need a machined metal block with a curvature you want on the final fret. You'll also have to build something out of wood and leather for the back of the neck to take the pressure. Basically this is how frets are pressed into many cheapo basses. Control is important because you do NOT want to crush the fret into the the wood. A low fret like that is a disaster! You just want them tamped down so there's no gap.

If the gaps for the tang are too wide as you say, then the fret may actually bounce back up. If that is going on then the frets will have to be pulled and you do the same operation over a gain this time gluing the frets in (you may need to let the glue set up on each one before you move on).

Once you get the frets more or less reasonable, then it's the standard level-crown-polish thing to tweak them in. I'm no luthier, but I have done this kind of refretting (believe it or not, it was a bass I connected a wire to each fret so fingering could be sensed electrically!) When I was done and had the frets out and then replaced with pins silver soldered to the tang of each fretwire for a connection I will say that the bass was reasonably playable while certainly not a boutique. And I didn't bother to level the frets or anything like that so it's not surprising. So depending on how low your standards are and how high an action you like, I think the job might be saved.

If not you can always start over. Just look at any failure as "educational" and you'll have the right idea!

[FunkMetalBass]

Do you have access to a drill press?

I had some luck with putting the fret press caul into my drill press and using it like an arbor press.
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting...ress_Caul.html

[Benjamin Strange]

Man... there's so many tiny details that make a fret job go smoothly - it would take me a week to type out a response that probably wouldn't cover all of it.

What you should do now is just stop what you're doing. You've got a nice bass, and you could really mess it up. Take it to a competent tech (make sure they have a neck jig or Plek machine - not that either of those tools automatically mean they're going to be used properly, but it's better than just doing it on the bench). What you're doing could make the job harder for the tech to do, and could therefore make it more expensive.

[VinKreepo]

Yeah, I think Imma hafta wait for a K5 neck to come up or get it refretted by a pro. The latter would have to wait after Christmas. I'm almost tempted to heat the fingerboard and unglue it as it's crappier than my GSR190 or SR300 fingerboards (it's brittle and chips like crazy... I think it's that ebanol crap). Would it be cheaper for a luthier to put in new frets into a new fingerboard? I'd probably get a new board from stewmac or something and put it on myself.

EDIT: I've watched builds here and I certainly have the tools and skills to apply a fingerboard that is of course preslotted

[steelhead2]

plumming or automatic transmissions,,all i can add is if you have `applied frets',and they don't `work' think about some files and other tools like straitedges and work over what you have while waiting to bid on another neck(that will for suredly come up on eBay)might take some time but i've waited and=sure enough here comes some guy parting out exactly what you need(yes a month seems like eternity when you are,,uh?-in hell!?

filefilefile,tune and file

[VinKreepo]

Originally Posted by steelhead2

plumming or automatic transmissions,,all i can add is if you have `applied frets',and they don't `work' think about some files and other tools like straitedges and work over what you have while waiting to bid on another neck(that will for suredly come up on eBay)might take some time but i've waited and=sure enough here comes some guy parting out exactly what you need(yes a month seems like eternity when you are,,uh?-in hell!?

filefilefile,tune and file

I need an old SR 885 neck or a prestige model neck or a K5... out of the two SR 885's currently in the classifieds, neither will part out and I just missed getting the $100 project SR 885 with a neck in great condition. It is hell haha

[Eric Moesle]

Installing a "pre-slotted" unfretted fretboard on that bass is going to be a collossal task. You have to have the "slots" line up EXACTLY - to the thousandths of a millimeter - where the frets should be else it will never play in tune. Plus, you will still have to radius the fretboard perfectly. If you can't install fretwire, there is little chance you can correctly install a pre-slotted fretboard.

[Pilgrim]

Perhaps the most practical action would be to live with the defretted neck for the time being and watch Ebay for a replacement. Sooner or later necks for darn near every type of modern bass come around on Ebay; it's not hard to set up searches that will email you automatically when a prospect comes up.

Failing that, I'd fill the fret lines in the most professional manner I could - do a good job, there's plenty of "how-to" info out there - and make another trade for a bass that suits you better.

[VinKreepo]

Originally Posted by Eric Moesle

Installing a "pre-slotted" unfretted fretboard on that bass is going to be a collossal task. You have to have the "slots" line up EXACTLY - to the thousandths of a millimeter - where the frets should be else it will never play in tune. Plus, you will still have to radius the fretboard perfectly. If you can't install fretwire, there is little chance you can correctly install a pre-slotted fretboard.

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

Perhaps the most practical action would be to live with the defretted neck for the time being and watch Ebay for a replacement. Sooner or later necks for darn near every type of modern bass come around on Ebay; it's not hard to set up searches that will email you automatically when a prospect comes up.

Failing that, I'd fill the fret lines in the most professional manner I could - do a good job, there's plenty of "how-to" info out there - and make another trade for a bass that suits you better.

To kinda reply to you both... I've defretted a neck and did extremely well. I can radius a board perfectly and everyone loves that neck's smooth, consistent feel. I feel I could replace the crappy fretboard that's on it... but I don't trust myself or even most luthiers around here to refret my bass by themselves... I'd have it PLEK'd whenever I got the money

No one around here is considered good at fretting

[VinKreepo]

THANKS!

Thanks to everyone for their input! 202dy was right... I increased the radius of the wire to much before inserting it into the slots and it didn't get wedged in the slot... II'm pulling the frets out now, bending them back, and inserting them with a hammer and no problems. I will hopefully get it PLEK'd someday to get the intonation just right. But for now... this fret job will be sufficient... especially after the most acclaimed luther in town just messed up on my friends neck. Ha, people go 2 hours away to Myrtle Beach, SC just to get their guitars repaired.

[VinKreepo]

Now, I see why this is 330 a refret... filing sucks

[Joshua]

Let's all remember the #1 rule here at TB; respect.

[Droot]

I didn't read every response so if this has been said please forgive. On a hammered fret job it is proper to start in the center as you did. Your mistake was the wire radius has to be smaller then the board to seat the wires. Having said that, I would suggest that you use a tiny drop of super glue at the fret ends and then clamp the fret with a wood block. Do both ends at the same time, it will take a while. Give it a little while between frets to dry and then clean the excess glue with a razor as a scraper. This is also assuming that the board is unfinished (I figured it was given the fretless refret). I have repaired many frets this way and it works well and is cost effective. Hope this helps.
Droot

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by VinKreepo

THANKS!

Thanks to everyone for their input! 202dy was right... I increased the radius of the wire to much before inserting it into the slots and it didn't get wedged in the slot... II'm pulling the frets out now, bending them back, and inserting them with a hammer and no problems. I will hopefully get it PLEK'd someday to get the intonation just right. But for now... this fret job will be sufficient... especially after the most acclaimed luther in town just messed up on my friends neck. Ha, people go 2 hours away to Myrtle Beach, SC just to get their guitars repaired.

I'm glad to hear that it's working out. Yes, filing is a pain - but patience is something I've had to learn, too. It's not easy.

[JLS]

? You don't need a six-figure machine, to set intonation.