Removing a jazz bass nut?

[Quicksilver44]

Heya, I'm just curious about how to remove the nut on a jazz bass. I've got a Squier fretless and I'm interested in raising it a hair or two.

Of course I'd like to do it as safely as possible - I'm no luthier, I have no technician tools to help me out really.. but is there any advice that'll help me out? I can't "rock" it out because it's got the fingerboard "molded" around it (as I assume all J-basses are, I wouldn't know ) ..

so how do I pop this thing out?

Thanks!

[96tbird]

Ya smacks it with a hammer. StewMac shows you how. STEWMAC.COM : Nut Making and Setup Free information

[walterw]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver44

I've got a Squier fretless and I'm interested in raising it a hair or two.

why?

they usually come from the factory way too high as it is.

with fretless, it literally needs to be a business card or even less higher than the wood at the end of the fretboard. .010" is a good height.

[bunnykeeper]

I won't question your reason for wanting to raise the nut, but I'm not sure what you mean by this:

Originally Posted by Quicksilver44

it's got the fingerboard "molded" around it

Could you post or link to a photo? I usually just use a small, flat jeweler's screwdriver as a chisel and tap very, very lightly form the side, under the nut, to loosen the glue. YMMV, of course.

[john grey]

IF there is a possibility of damage: there are people out there with the correct tools to do the job correctly. If the nut is surrounded with a binding from the edge of the neck, a fast short shot of steam will loosen the glue (hopefully it's all original) and often a small (1/2") wooden dowel is used to tap (LIGHTLY) on the nut to dislodge the glue's contact with the nut groove. Understand that the steam is not contacting the wood. It's a VERY fine jet of steam (used in many unique applications) that hits the very top of the nut. Then the nut is pulled straight up after the fret-board area adjacent to the nut has been taped to prevent scratching. The steam is important to loosen any glue that may have contact from the binding to the edge of the nut. White or cow-hide glue can be easily worked with but even toluene-type adhesives would respond. Someone who knows what they are doing will tape first, then steam and then check for a loosening. If it isn't working after a third shot; it may have been cryan0type ("super-glue") and that has a unbonding agent available. The problem is that it can occasionally travel into view from the "solvent" loosening agent and need to be cleaned up. Super-glue is not appropriate in most instances. The binding can be a serious problem so if you don't feel confident, I would certainly take it to someone who works with acoustic instruments, as they often have fine tools such as the above.

[96tbird]

Doesn't your Squier bass have some sort of plastic, I believe its called ebanol, board? If so wood chipping out is not a concern. And threre likely isn't any varnish on the side of board, except where it is feathered up from from the wood neck. Score any varnish on the ends of the nut and Just begin by tapping it. Nut material is non porous and.any glue just barely grips the smooth surface and will release easily.

The big trick is cleaning the groove after. I suspect easier with non porous ebanol board.

[JLS]

I'll take a photo of, and post, my not-for-the-faint-of-heart, slotsquaring jig, which uses a Bosch Colt. In fact, I need to use it on a classical guitar in a day or two.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by walterw

why?

they usually come from the factory way too high as it is.

with fretless, it literally needs to be a business card or even less higher than the wood at the end of the fretboard. .010" is a good height.

Agreed.

If you must:

1. Score lightly on all four sides.
2. Tap with a small dowel or block of wood multiple times on headstock and bridge sides.
3. "Walk" the nut out with a pair of end nippers.*
4. Clean residue from slot with a fine chisel.**

*Wrap the jaws with multiple pieces of masking tape to prevent scoring or breaking the nut. My pair is ground dull and rounded so that the jaws meet for roughly and eighth of an inch in the center only.

**Care must be taken to remove residue only. It is very easy to gouge the bottom of the slot.

This works most of the time. A recalcitrant nut will have to be destroyed to remove it.

1. Score.
2. Saw a kerf lengthwise with an X-acto saw.
3. Crush with the end nippers.
4. Excavate remaining pieces with the chisel.

[Quicksilver44]

Hey everyone, thanks a lot for the information so far.

My reasoning behind raising the nut is for achieving perfect action all up and down the neck. I've been fighting with this bass for a few months (on and off) trying to get the action as low as possible. Now I've read on this forum that some people say they've gotten their action unbelievably low (barely credit card height!) and I always wondered how it could be so low without the strings buzzing SOMEWHERE on the neck!

So I tried several configurations.. (i.e., neck relief, neck totally straight, varying thicknesses of shims, saddle height) and I never had a solid theory as to why I couldn't get it ultra low. Then I realized that this Gotoh 201 bridge that I bought for it is considerably bigger and the saddles on it are thicker than the stock bridge. So to compensate for that extra height, I put a shim that pretty much got it to a nice height for a few months (the shims I'd tried previously were just simply not thick enough).

But hey, I've got a disease... I always think that I can make it better.. So that's why I'm here. My theory ended up being that I want to make the strings parallel with the neck all up and down and maybe that will allow me to get a super low action.(here we come to the reason why I want to raise the nut a little bit).. The shim I recently put in is pretty thick.. The way it is now, the action is so low that its just about touching the neck (so I can barely play an open string without buzz).. so my idea is that now I can raise the nut AND the saddles to get the strings up a little bit on BOTH sides. Before, I could only adjust with the saddles and to my mind it was no good because I was only raising one side. So that's why I want to adjust the nut a little bit.

Be patient with me, I've gone a little insane but I've got a passion for learning about these things because I love the instrument and I want to get my hands on some disgustingly low action.

[Pilgrim]

It's a lot easier to try a different shim than to change a nut...and a lot less "permanent".

[Quicksilver44]

Well you're right about that but I've been at a huge range of shims already and I feel the string angle just isn't right no matter what kind of shim I do put in. Actually right now I have two pieces of a kind of maple as the shim which are both about the thickness of a popsicle stick. It's probably a really radical thickness but I left it in as an experiment.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver44

Hey everyone, thanks a lot for the information so far.

My reasoning behind raising the nut is for achieving perfect action all up and down the neck. I've been fighting with this bass for a few months (on and off) trying to get the action as low as possible. Now I've read on this forum that some people say they've gotten their action unbelievably low (barely credit card height!) and I always wondered how it could be so low without the strings buzzing SOMEWHERE on the neck!

So I tried several configurations.. (i.e., neck relief, neck totally straight, varying thicknesses of shims, saddle height) and I never had a solid theory as to why I couldn't get it ultra low. Then I realized that this Gotoh 201 bridge that I bought for it is considerably bigger and the saddles on it are thicker than the stock bridge. So to compensate for that extra height, I put a shim that pretty much got it to a nice height for a few months (the shims I'd tried previously were just simply not thick enough).

But hey, I've got a disease... I always think that I can make it better.. So that's why I'm here. My theory ended up being that I want to make the strings parallel with the neck all up and down and maybe that will allow me to get a super low action.(here we come to the reason why I want to raise the nut a little bit).. The shim I recently put in is pretty thick.. The way it is now, the action is so low that its just about touching the neck (so I can barely play an open string without buzz).. so my idea is that now I can raise the nut AND the saddles to get the strings up a little bit on BOTH sides. Before, I could only adjust with the saddles and to my mind it was no good because I was only raising one side. So that's why I want to adjust the nut a little bit.

Be patient with me, I've gone a little insane but I've got a passion for learning about these things because I love the instrument and I want to get my hands on some disgustingly low action.

A couple of notes:

Changing the height of the nut will have an effect in the low positions. Beyond F-3 (1 1/2 position on upright) there will be little if any change in string height.

Basses, fretted or fretless, that have seriously low action/string height also have seriously level frets and/or straight fingerboards. This is exclusive of relief. The fingerboard must be planed absolutely flat in the lie of the strings from nut to end. Sometimes they come from the factory like that. More often than not it will require the services of a pro. It is not a job for the average player unless they are handy in the extreme and are comfortable working to a thousandth of an inch.

As far as the rest goes, please post data. String heights at F-12 and the end of the neck on the bass and treble sides respectively (in 64ths), relief at F-7 (in thousandths), and nut height (in thousandths). That will give everyone on the board a better idea of the status of the set up.

[JLS]

My theory ended up being that I want to make the strings parallel with the neck all up and down and maybe that will allow me to get a super low action.

That would be a misconception.

You don't now, then, or ever, raise the nut to get lower action.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by JLS

You don't now, then, or ever, raise the nut to get lower action.

+1

[Quicksilver44]

Originally Posted by JLS

That would be a misconception.

You don't now, then, or ever, raise the nut to get lower action.

I understand, that makes sense. Come to think of it, the action in the first position is not something I'd want to raise anyway, it's really nice. It's mostly the action downward from that. It gradually gets higher as you go down.

So then I'm back around to the beginning - I can't really get exceptionally low action without buzzing.. I've got my shim in (at appropriate thickness, what worked alright before)

I mean I can get it to an okay height that I'm pretty comfortable with but I'm sure it could be taken down lower.

[96tbird]

If your neck is flat, then the board needs work. Check it with a metal straight edge. IS IT Ebanol (hard plastic subsatnce) or is it wood? If Ebanol I have no idea how workable it is; wood is another matter and a luthier can help you.

FWIW, I'd loose the Gotoh and shim and put a regulation bridge back on.The bridge gains you little other than the need to shim. IMHO.

[Quicksilver44]

Originally Posted by 96tbird

If your neck is flat, then the board needs work. Check it with a metal straight edge. IS IT Ebanol (hard plastic subsatnce) or is it wood? If Ebanol I have no idea how workable it is; wood is another matter and a luthier can help you.

FWIW, I'd loose the Gotoh and shim and put a regulation bridge back on.The bridge gains you little other than the need to shim. IMHO.

Sorry, I forgot to address that, it is indeed an ebonol fingerboard. And you definitely have a point about the bridge. That's something I thought about doing.. though I DO hear quite a difference between the stock bridge and the Gotoh.. the sound kind seems to have more presence and clarity. But it COULD be that pesky placebo effect type of thing. Time will tell because I will surely be putting the stock bridge back on at some point

[96tbird]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver44

.. though I DO hear quite a difference between the stock bridge and the Gotoh.. the sound kind seems to have more presence and clarity.

That's because it's sucking luscious bottom end off the strings and sinking it into the black hole of the body.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver44

It gradually gets higher as you go down.

It's supposed to. You are trying to fix someting that is not a problem.

Look at it this way. How far does the string vibrate at the nut? It doesn't. So what clearance does it need? None. How far does the string vibrate midway between the nut and the bridge? Well let's say it's one 16th of an inch. How much clearance does it need? At least one sixteenth of an inch. So you need more clearance as you go up the neck (or "down" as you call it).

[JLS]