Repair help. (Warped neck?)

[TheSilverKnight]

hope I posted this in the right place first time on this forum.

Hey guys. I have a crappy no name bass. Have had is for about 3 years have only actually been playing for about a year.

Got a problem tho that I didn't realize until I just picked up a new acoustic bass. The neck on my electric is warped so the higher(pitch) I get on the fret board the farther away the strings are from the fretboard. Noticed this because the acoustic bass has a neck that is in the right place which makes it so much more comfortable and easy to play and now I can't go back to playing my electric because I have to press the strings down so far to play.

I have adjusted the rod in the neck in both directions. Loosening it makes the strings go farther so I know thats not the solution. I have tightened it to the point that the neck is in the position is where it should be nice and straight. But that only adds a new problem the strings are where they are supposed to be but now I can't play opens without horrible fret buzz off the first fret. Thus having no choice to set it back where it was that way its at least playable.

So I have come to the conclusion that the neck is physically warped to a point where adjustments can't set it right.

Does anybody have any idea of anything I can do to fix this problem.

Other minor(or major) details: I just had the nut replaced on it because it got knocked over onto the floor and it cracked so my E wouldn't sit in while playing. The new nut seems a bit lower than the stock one and may contribute to the fact that when the neck is set properly the open note buzz.

Any ideas for a self fix would be great the guys at the music shop who put in the new nut said that the neck needed to be set but said they would charge $70 + strings. I declined this thinking that all they were gonna do was use an Allan wrench and turn the rod like i have done multiple times now. So i don't see what they could do would be different. Should I let them have a go at it maybe they know some thing I don't or have the proper skill to humidify the wood and bend the wood if that need be.

Any answers appreciated.

[202dy]

While it is impossible to be absolutely certain without seeing the guitar, it does not sound like the neck is warped. As a matter or fact, it sounds like it is working perfectly. Continuing along these lines, it is very rare that a fingerboard should be nice and straight. There should be some relief in the neck. Refer to the sticky at the top of the page for instruction on taking some measurements. Post them here and someone will help you. Most importantly, let's lock down the relief first.

Depending on how nice and straight the neck is, it might be a case of a low nut that needs to be shimmed. Or it could be that the neck is in a slight back bow. That would also cause a buzz at the first fret.

[TheSilverKnight]

Thanks for your reply will try and get some measurements as best I can but I may lack proper too and despite musical knowledge I really don't know anything along the lines of determining how an instrument should properly be set up other than tweaking and testing .

Also if you think it would be helpful I can take a few snap shots from various angels.

Edit: Not to seem stupid. But I don't see the stickys mentioned on this board at least not ones pertaining to the measurement of a bass. Point a guy in the right direction

[202dy]

Look at the top of the page. There is a sticky entitiled ALL TRUSS ROD AND ACTION QUESTIONS ANSWERED HERE. Read it. If it seems too complex, seeking professional help might be your only recourse.

[TheSilverKnight]

So far looking at roughly(by eye) an 1/8 inch relief which based off of reading only that first link seems like allot if you have any advice or input before I try some of the methods in that tutorial it would be appreciated.

Also quick question. To further my felling of lack of knowledge on the subject. Said link says you should probably shouldn't turn the truss rod more than a half turn per day. Seeing as I know where it should be should I make the adjustment to the poin where the strings sit about right or should I take it a little by little day by day?

Thanks again. TheSK

Edit: Side note most defiantly up-bowed now that I know what to call it.

[202dy]

An intelligent question about a widely held myth. Truss rods can be turned until the neck is properly adjusted. If the rod feels tight or the nut is hard to turn, stop. Other methods may need to be employed to help the neck come into adjustment.

Turn the rod until the neck is where it needs to be. The caveat is if the nut becomes difficult to turn or emits a squeek it is time to stop. It may take a few hours for the neck to settle. It might take the adjustment and hold it.

It is important to remember that if the nut is hard to turn it is time to stop. If you do not have much experience with tools, if you do not know what it feels like when a nut is too hard to turn, it is a good idea to take it to someone who does.

The Mr. Gearhead site will explain the measurements properly. The Gary Willis site will only serve to confuse. Most of the folks who can help you on TB will ask you for measurements. Take them and post them. If you do not have an accurate tool with which to measure, stop. Go to the hardware store and buy a small metal ruler marked in 64ths. A school ruler marked in 16ths is not accurate enough to use for adjusting a guitar.

[TheSilverKnight]

Ok thanks. Will check and see if we have a ruler like that at the hardware section at work Wal-mart for the win . and I have no problem with tools and measurements. If i can handle complex physics and computer programing a few measurements are nothing.

Besides once I feel I am a Good bassist I would like to justify having a collection so being able to maintain one would be a good skill. And what better way to learn than with a no-name bass that I am not particularly attached to despite it being my first bass.

While on the topic since it seems to be involved in the problem which of those links would you most recommend for adjusting the string height that can explain it well because as I said I have always adjusted it in a manner of move it a bit and see how it works out, guess and check. I understand intonation thats a snap but I am not sure to the proper method of determining how the string height SHOULD be set with in a relative degree because I am sure there is room for personal preference in there.

Thanks again. TheSK

[TheSilverKnight]

Ok the closest I could get was in 32nd's but I have the eye to see a half and on the most likely rare occasion it falls on a whole I can double the result to get it in 64ths.

Which measurements exactly are you looking for? The ones from the bottom of the string to the 8th fret while 1st and last string are depressed? and from the string to the 17th fret?

[202dy]

F12 is where most techs measure string height. It is the theoretical mid-point of the string. A change at the bridge will be halved at the twelfth fret. This simplifies adjustments. For example, if the E string is 2/64" high the saddle is lowered by 4/64". Voila. No guessing. Don't forget that the saddle should be parallel to the bridge plate.

Relief is ideally measured at F7 with a straight edge and feeler gauges. Feeler gauges are cheap. Straight edges are not. Most folks around TB will capo the first fret, fret at F17 or the last fret with a free hand and use a business card to examine relief. Most will make the comparison at F8. Business cards are of various thicknesses from .010" to .030". It can lead to a lot of confusion and frustration. But it will offer at least an idea of how much curve is in the fingerboard.

[TheSilverKnight]

Ok will get on that for you gus in the morning seeing as you are the only one who has replied maybe you guys aren't vampires like me

[TheSilverKnight]

On E string with Saddle parallel to bridge plate there is 8/64" from the bottom of the string to the 7th fret. This is with first fret Capo'd and 17th fret depressed.

18/64" at 12th fret without string pressed down on the E.

This is without ANY adjustments to the neck it is in the BAD position .

Is this enough for you to determine relief? If not I can take any other measurements you need got nothing but time.

Also Intonation currently is NOT set so if that needs to be someplace special for the measurements that is just as easily done.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by TheSilverKnight

On E string with Saddle parallel to bridge plate there is 8/64" from the bottom of the string to the 7th fret. This is with first fret Capo'd and 17th fret depressed.

18/64" at 12th fret without string pressed down on the E.

This is without ANY adjustments to the neck it is in the BAD position .

Is this enough for you to determine relief? If not I can take any other measurements you need got nothing but time.

Also Intonation currently is NOT set so if that needs to be someplace special for the measurements that is just as easily done.

Not sure what the BAD position is. The best way to take the measurements is in playing position. Gravity has an effect on the neck. Placing the neck on the bench will give a false reading making any adjustments problematic when the bass is turned eighty odd degrees and strapped on.

As far as relief measurements go, generally speaking the average is ~.012". Since 8/62" is .125" there is roughly ten times the amount of desired relief. Tighten the truss rod adjusting nut.

N.B. With that much relief, a simple twist (or many) of the nut may not bring the neck into the desired position. The neck may require a clamping rig to straighten. If the nut becomes hard to turn or emits a loud squeek, stop immediately.

[TheSilverKnight]

By "BAD" I meant that I left it unadjusted. For the sake of determining relief and such how much it needs to be adjusted in your opinion.

EDIT: Bass was held in sitting position as if being played so measurements should be good.
Also checked intonation and it is oddly perfect now that the saddles are parallel with bridge plate :|

[202dy]

Originally Posted by TheSilverKnight

By "BAD" I meant that I left it unadjusted. For the sake of determining relief and such how much it needs to be adjusted in your opinion.

|

The guitar needs to be adjusted until the relief is ~.012" give or take .003" depending on the fretwork and playing style.

[TheSilverKnight]

Originally Posted by 202dy

The guitar needs to be adjusted until the relief is ~.012" give or take .003" depending on the fretwork and playing style.

What is the method of conversion for decimals to fractions with inches? I prefer to work with fractions? but the mathematical steps of putting .012 over 1000 would come out as 3/250 so that doesn't work with inches

EDIT:Never mind I think I figured it out being out of school has put my brain to halt correct me if I am wrong but .012*12=.144
.144/.03125=4.61/32" or roughly 4 and a half 32nds of an inch.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by TheSilverKnight

What is the method of conversion for decimals to fractions with inches? I prefer to work with fractions? but the mathematical steps of putting .012 over 1000 would come out as 3/250 so that doesn't work with inches

EDIT:Never mind I think I figured it out being out of school has put my brain to halt correct me if I am wrong but .012*12=.144
.144/.03125=4.61/32" or roughly 4 and a half 32nds of an inch.

You are wrong. This is the correction:

4.5/32 = 9/64=.140625" It is a far cry from twelve thousandths of an inch. .012"=.768/64 or roughly three quarters of a sixty-fourth. It is roughly the thickness of a thin business card. On a set of feeler gauges it is the one that is marked .012". This is a game of thousandths. A change of just .001" can make a big difference depending on how twitchy a neck is. A sheet of notebook paper is ~.003" thick. A rule marked in 64ths (.015625") is not the ideal tool. You're going after mosquitoes with a howitzer.

[peterbright]

You're going after mosquitoes with a howitzer.

Right! At the Walmart where you work, they probably sell automotive feeler gauges. Cheap...and they can be stacked to get almost any measurement you need. If they don't have them there, go to an automotive supply store.