replaning a neck, your opinion please!

santucci218 · #1 12-24-2010, 07:10 AM

This is for the advanced repair men out there! I purchased a guitar off of eBay recently. I showed it to a repair tech whom told me the neck has a bit of an S curve in it. There isnt much relief on the high E side, but there is on the lower E side, causing some buzzing around the lower frets of the high strings, and again around frets 12-15. I instantly wrote to the guy on ebay, and he is being a total dude about it. He will either refund me the money to get the guitar neck replaned, or just give me my 1,000 dollars back and i will go at a different guitar. what would you do? Also, heres a few questions.

Have you ever seen this issue corrected by replaning the neck, then come back at a later time? The repair tech I showed it to doesnt do it himself, but he said that sometimes after its done, the neck will still warp in time. Is this true?

Also, this is a Gibson les paul. The binding on the sides of the neck also goes over the sides of the frets. if refretted and replaned, I assume that would be gone? I know its only aesthetics, but im just weird!

Let me know your guys opinions. I am going to get a second opinion on the neck from a different repair tech tuesday, so until then I have time to decide what to do depending on the news i receive.

FunkMetalBass · #2 12-24-2010, 07:24 AM

I can't comment on the neck warp, but I will comment on the neck binding.

He might be able to get the frets back into the original slots, but if he has to cut new slots, the binding will have the slots cut in it. He might be able to re-do the binding, but planing, refretting, and re-binding will cost you half as much as the guitar.

reedo35 · #3 12-24-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

He might be able to re-do the binding, but planing, refretting, and re-binding will cost you half as much as the guitar.

A good repair guy can do this. Some won't even accept a job like this because of the work involved. Most of the time the binding needs replaced. And if you paid 1K$ for it, the $500 estimate is probably very close, because it will also have to be replaned, refretted, and then rebound. For the record, I had this done on my 68' P-Bass 22 years ago and I have never had a problem with it since.(No binding though).

reedo35 · #4 12-24-2010, 07:59 AM

I just noticed you're from Pittsburgh, my old hometown. If you are still interested in having this repaired, PM me and I'll give you some names of guys that could do it.

santucci218 · #5 12-24-2010, 08:00 AM

Thank you. Makes me feel better about it if i do get it done though! Any more opinions?

202dy · #6 12-24-2010, 08:18 AM

The answer is it depends.

Why is the neck pulling into a ess? Was it a stored improperly? Or is the neck or the fingerboard wood loaded with stress? Or is the neck simply a bum piece of wood? Or the fingerboard?

Each question has a different answer. Generally speaking, a plane and re-fret will take care of the problem permanently. However, it might make more sense to heat press the neck first to see if the neck can be brought into cooperation. It is also less expensive.

As far as re-cutting the slots on a bound neck goes, it is a poor repairman who will cut through the binding when deepening the slots. In the old days, a repairman would shorten a replacement saw blade and clamp it into a frame. The blade is shorter than the fret length at the first fret, allowing the tech to clean and deepen the slot without disturbing the binding. Today, you can buy a dedicated tool from Stew Mac.

As far as losing the nibs while planing the fingerboard, they can be replaced, too. A little bit of binding material is ground and placed in a small glass container with some acetone. The resulting goo is dabbed on the binding at the fret ends. It will melt in to the binding and harden. Then it can be shaped, dressed, and touched up.

The only reasons to remove or replace the binding on a Les Paul (or similar guitar) is if the fingerboard is to be replaced or if it is damaged beyond repair.

So, what to do? Do you really, really like this guitar? If so, try a heat press. If that doesn't work, plane and re-fret. However, if it isn't true love, it is a lot of time, work, and money to put into second best.

santucci218 · #7 12-24-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202dy

The answer is it depends.

Why is the neck pulling into a ess? Was it a stored improperly? Or is the neck or the fingerboard wood loaded with stress? Or is the neck simply a bum piece of wood? Or the fingerboard?

Each question has a different answer. Generally speaking, a plane and re-fret will take care of the problem permanently. However, it might make more sense to heat press the neck first to see if the neck can be brought into cooperation. It is also less expensive.

As far as re-cutting the slots on a bound neck goes, it is a poor repairman who will cut through the binding when deepening the slots. In the old days, a repairman would shorten a replacement saw blade and clamp it into a frame. The blade is shorter than the fret length at the first fret, allowing the tech to clean and deepen the slot without disturbing the binding. Today, you can buy a dedicated tool from Stew Mac.

As far as losing the nibs while planing the fingerboard, they can be replaced, too. A little bit of binding material is ground and placed in a small glass container with some acetone. The resulting goo is dabbed on the binding at the fret ends. It will melt in to the binding and harden. Then it can be shaped, dressed, and touched up.

The only reasons to remove or replace the binding on a Les Paul (or similar guitar) is if the fingerboard is to be replaced or if it is damaged beyond repair.

So, what to do? Do you really, really like this guitar? If so, try a heat press. If that doesn't work, plane and re-fret. However, if it isn't true love, it is a lot of time, work, and money to put into second best.

A lot of good information. I am scared I am going to make the wrong choice with the guitar, ya know? The guy will reimburst me for the repair, but that wont mean much to me if i get it fixed and the problem comes back in a few years. Can you tell me more about the heat press?

reedo35 · #8 12-24-2010, 09:37 AM

A Heat press is Less expensive, but more of a gamble in terms of success. What they do is loosen the truss rod, put it in a neck jig to straighten it out to specs, and then apply heat (I think dry heat, it may be steam. IME, this usually works OK for a while, but the neck will always have a tendency to change with the weather.

santucci218 · #9 12-24-2010, 01:48 PM

change as in change back, or just need the truss rod adjusted?

mongo2 · #10 12-24-2010, 02:42 PM

I'd send the guitar back and move on.

gfried84 · #11 12-24-2010, 03:29 PM

A neck can be planed straight and sometimes the warp will return. The binding does not have to be replaced or removed. The fret tang can be cut back to allow the crown of the fret to overhang the binding. I have re-fretted many bound fingerboards this way. You will actually gain some playing surface.

santucci218 · #12 12-24-2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfried84

A neck can be planed straight and sometimes the warp will return. The binding does not have to be replaced or removed. The fret tang can be cut back to allow the crown of the fret to overhang the binding. I have re-fretted many bound fingerboards this way. You will actually gain some playing surface.

well, if you were me, what would you do?

walterw · #13 12-24-2010, 06:11 PM

a really good pro refret can leave the guitar playing better than it ever could from the factory. if you really like it, and know a reputable guy to refret it, then go for it.

+1 to binding not being that big a deal. the normal procedure is to get rid of the little "nibs" and install the new wire so that the ends go over the binding, netting a little more playing area (like gfried84 said).

trying to preserve or recreate the nibs could double the labor involved, and for no good reason. (they only exist because of gibson's labor-saving step of putting the binding on after the frets are installed, then cutting the binding down around each fret.)

as for the warp "coming back", my experience has been that once something like that's happened, it's happened, and the wood will tend to stay in its new shape. planing the neck true again will usually solve the issue permanently, while heat-pressing it might be only temporary.

santucci218 · #14 12-24-2010, 08:04 PM

So youre saying its something that happens and stays, not keeps getting worse. Your sig says repair work. Do you do this kind of stuff? Can you pm me a rough estimate?

reedo35 · #15 12-25-2010, 07:24 AM

+1 on what Walt says. I can almost guarantee a job like that will still cost between $300-500 depending. It cost me almost $200 22 years ago, and I am sure the price has gone up since then.

202dy · #16 12-25-2010, 11:18 AM

How techs view heat pressing versus plane and refret:

Most repair shops have not invested the money in proper heat blankets. They are expensive. If they do not have the right tools, they tend to not do the work. If they do not regularly perform the task, it becomes a bit like voo doo in their minds.

Heat pressing is boring. The tech spends most of the time staring at the project while it comes up to temp. This is necessary to insure against any problems that might occur due to overheating wood and lacquer. Sometimes the process may have to be repeated if the neck does not cooperate. That may double the cost on what is generally a flat rate job. That means it costs the shop more, not the customer. Heat pressing may cause some fret problems which will necessitate more work. That means an up-charge to the customer, something repair folk try to avoid for a number of reasons.

Many claim that heat pressing is temporary. Countering that argument are many examples of heat bent products that never loose their shape.

Planing and re-freting is an active chore. It is not boring. Well, that is until you've got a few hundred of them under your belt. It is more easily controlled than heat pressing. A tech or shop can usually generate more dollars performing this service. The end product is more predictable. Once the work is quoted, there is almost no chance that the shop will run into anything that will necessitate an up-charge to the customer. That makes repair folk feel more confident in selling the repair.

Regarding the nibs:

There are several reasons to preserve or rebuild the nibs. If the guitar is collectible, the nibs will need to be preserved or rebuilt. Some folks like the feel of the nibs. Some folks like the look of the nibs. The downside is that, whether or not the nibs are preserved or taken or rebuilt, the frets must be cut accurately and the ends dressed flat before installation. This is a bit time consuming and it will be reflected in the price.

Taking the nibs is easier. It is quicker to install over-length frets, cut to length, and bevel than laboriously installing inside the nibs. But not much quicker because, when installing over binding, the fret tang must be cut back while leaving the crown to overhang the neck. However, this method is more often than not the method of choice, and some time can be picked up by the experienced tech.

The claim that there will be a wider playing surface when the fret extends the full width of the fingerboard is also dubious. While it is true that some Gibson bindings are rather thick, depending on the angle of the bevel they may provide equal or more surface than the beveled fret. It is pretty much a toss up as to which provides more room.

walterw · #17 12-25-2010, 03:33 PM

can't really argue with any of that, except to maintain that getting rid of the nibs is the more "normal" method of re-fretting non-museum piece gibsons.

202dy · #18 12-25-2010, 05:36 PM

No arguments here. For me, if planing, nibs are usually taken. If re-fretting, depends on fingerboard condition and customer opinion. The given is that it is a bit of a pain to clean up while paying attention to the nibs. Same thing goes for cutting frets to length. That is why they invented dial calipers. And calculators for adding up the total.

If it were easy, everyone would do it.