Ric Neck Problems

[SnowCal]

So I've got an older Rickenbacker that has seen the world and then some, and it has some dings and dents to prove it, though nothing horrible enough as to be visible at 5ft. At least not to most of us. And I love the feel and I like how it plays. I really do.

But let's be honest, it has some neck problems. The truss rods are simply tapped out. The bridge is low. And yet the action is not so fantastic. And I'm not certain what to do at this point. I'm probably going to leave it as is for the time being but I've got a luthier suggesting fret work and routing on the bridge. Says he could probably make it a damned playable instrument with that work.

And I'd like to get it there. But those are some pretty aggressive actions to take. Is there not something that could be done on the neck end of this situation where I suppose the problem really lies? I'm just a little concerned about this.

Will probably be a few months before I can afford to do anything anyway, but I'd like to figure out what I can do at this point.

[FretlessMainly]

We need more information. "An older Rickenbacker" means what? Provide us with the year and model #.
RIC truss rods can become maxed out for a few reasons. Routing the bridge is an extreme measure that is masking tape on the real issue. It's likely better to solve the real issue than to do major mods that will remove much of the collectible value of this instrument (if there is any).

Also, adjusting the truss rods is dependent upon what year/model you have. You don't want to adjust a 4001 neck the same way you can a 4003 neck; seriously!

Some of us here can help, so give us specifics to do so. Model, year (from input jack code) and pictures of the issue are critical.

[SnowCal]

90s 4003 I think. I'll know the exact year tomorrow but it's not with me right now. I'll see if I can post some pics tomorrow.

[FretlessMainly]

Well, if it is indeed 90s, then it's a 4003 not a 4001. So that's a good start. One thing you should do is to remove the pickguard and take a photo of the nuts at the end of the neck (body end). Also take a photo of the truss rod adjustment nuts at the headstock with the truss rod cover removed.

We can go from there. Don't do anything adjustment-wise until we've had a gander at what's going on. Hang in there...

[LB75]

And make sure that the luthier that you use knows Rics. You didn't mention where you are located, if you can tell us where you are someone here might be able point you in the right direction.

[electracoyote]

If it is truly the rods that are spent, you should consider replacing them. New rods can be obtained from Rickenbacker, and they are "field replaceable," meaning it's a relatively quick and easy procedure. I can attest to this as I have removed the rods from one of my Rics just for the hell of it to see if it could be done, and yes it can, and I'm not the world's greatest luthier. It was unbelievably easy.

You do need someone who is a bit of a Ric expert to help you with this. Many techs are not, and conventional wisdom and methods often won't work on a Ric.

[LB75]

There's a lot of good info on this site too http://www.rickresource.com/forum/index.php

[FretlessMainly]

All good info, electra and LB, but my main point is to have some photos here so we can suggest next steps. One possible issue is not so much that the rods are "spent," but that there is soft wood at the end of the neck that has allowed the acorn nuts to travel into the neck when the truss rods was tightened. It's not common, but a possibility. This is why I'd rather see what's up before suggesting a trip to a luthier and making changes.

[SnowCal]

Originally Posted by LB75

And make sure that the luthier that you use knows Rics. You didn't mention where you are located, if you can tell us where you are someone here might be able point you in the right direction.

I'm located wherever is best on the West Coast. SF, Portland, and Seattle are all frequent visits for me and I could use better excuses to go to these places. "The best Ric luthier lives there" is a heckuva lot better than "I need to go to a BBQ 600 miles away". Or "Dude, there's a hella cool band playing tonight 800 miles away at Joe's Crappy Bar, let's go". I've done both. When one can fly on a major airline for free, your concept of distance gets seriously warped. Places that are far from airports are long trips in my opinion, even if only a couple hundred miles away. Honolulu by contrast seems close and easy to get to. Ok, that is a long friggin' flight. PDX, SEA, and SFO are best for me.

I will post all the info requested tomorrow including pics. But as you might guess, not in the right place to do so. Past few months I've averaged 2 nights a week at home.

[FretlessMainly]

PM sent.

[SnowCal]

Ok, so it's a 99 4003. Here are a few pics, so...

[SnowCal]

Just wondering if anybody had some thoughts. I've tried to look into the whole soft maple/receding acorn nut thing but I haven't found much info beyond that there are a few different fixes for that (the easiest being washers and superglue?). I have no idea if something simple like that could resolve this issue, or if I need to look at one of the more complex fixes. Maybe new TRs either way.

Any ideas?

[JLS]

Is the neck bowing, or is it the neck angle? The low bridge/high action problem is analogous to the need for a neck reset on and acoustic guitar; on a Ric bass, the only way I know of is to pull the fingerboard, and fabricate a full-length tapered shim the change the fingerboard angle. If this is the case, unless you're willing to sink hideous amounts of money into this bass, you are well and truly screwed.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by SnowCal

So I've got an older Rickenbacker that has seen the world and then some, and it has some dings and dents to prove it, though nothing horrible enough as to be visible at 5ft. At least not to most of us. And I love the feel and I like how it plays. I really do.

But let's be honest, it has some neck problems. The truss rods are simply tapped out. The bridge is low. And yet the action is not so fantastic. And I'm not certain what to do at this point. I'm probably going to leave it as is for the time being but I've got a luthier suggesting fret work and routing on the bridge. Says he could probably make it a damned playable instrument with that work.

And I'd like to get it there. But those are some pretty aggressive actions to take. Is there not something that could be done on the neck end of this situation where I suppose the problem really lies? I'm just a little concerned about this.

Will probably be a few months before I can afford to do anything anyway, but I'd like to figure out what I can do at this point.

Tune it DGCF and use lighter strings ... this will take pressure off the neck

[Ric5]

OK I read further down it is a 4003 ...

Try this ...

Detune the bass push it into back bow and tighten the rods a little. Then retune it and see how it plays. You may need a second pair of hands to do this, and you may need to repeat this a few times. Also store the bass in a humidifed environment and try to keep the humidity between 35% and 55%.

If you live in Colorado bring the bass by my basement workshop and I can help you flatten out the neck.

[SnowCal]

Originally Posted by JLS

Is the neck bowing, or is it the neck angle? The low bridge/high action problem is analogous to the need for a neck reset on and acoustic guitar; on a Ric bass, the only way I know of is to pull the fingerboard, and fabricate a full-length tapered shim the change the fingerboard angle. If this is the case, unless you're willing to sink hideous amounts of money into this bass, you are well and truly screwed.

I think it is more of a bowing problem. In the last picture I posted you can see the curvature in the neck. It's very visible. Likewise, with the instrument tuned I can hold the head in place and push on the back of the neck around the 9th fret and get good action all the way up the neck. I just can't get the truss rods to do that on their own.

[JLS]

It's always good practise to backclamp, or otherwise lower tension, so that the trussrod (s) don't have to do all the heavy lifting; think of this as the trussrod maintaining the desired relief.

Older Rics must be adjusted this way.

[Ric5]

Are the rods at the end of their adjustment or will they just not turn because of the neck pressure.

If they are at the end of their adjustment then adding at washer at either or both ends may help or adding a new block.

I suspect they still have movement left in them. Detune the strings and push the bass neck into backbow and see if the nuts at the end of the rod can be turned. If there is any thread left they should turn easily in this scenario. Most Rics do not this type of coaxing to get adjusted correctly, but there are a few out there that do. You may have to flatten out the neck in stages. It probably tooks years of no adjustments to get the bow it has now so it may take a few weeks to get it flat.

Using this method you can transform a problem Ric into a good player.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by JLS

It's always good practise to backclamp, or otherwise lower tension, so that the trussrod (s) don't have to do all the heavy lifting; think of this as the trussrod maintaining the desired relief.

Older Rics must be adjusted this way.

Yes on old Ricks you loosen the rods and then move the neck and then retighten them to HOLD the neck in place. Some new Ricks the neck is so strong that the rods can't move it on their own so you push on the neck and tighten the nuts.

Years ago I had a stubborn Ric and tried to force the rods to move the neck and sheared the nuts off. I then learned how to change rods on a Rickenbacker. (it is actually pretty easy)

[JLS]

There's just no context where this sounds good...