Sanding my ebanol fretboard level!! HELP!!

[DiabolusInMusic]

So I like many here bought a fretless Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass, and it has noticeable fret lines which I assume is stopping me from getting a playable setup without fret buzz and I am going to attempt to sand them out. I have never worked with ebanol, and am looking for some good advice

I'm no luthier, I'm not even that good with my hands.... but I'm cheap, so I am going to attempt it. I've got my 9.5" block, and I about to head out and pick up some 400, 800, 1000, 1500, and maybe 2000 grit sand papers. I wanted to start on 600 but they didn't have it. Forgot to ask if they were wet, but they probably are at that grade, I am getting them from NAPA. I do plan to put a little water on the fretboard as I sand, good idea or bad idea?

Is this going to ruin the finish? I don't think this the neck is coated with anything, I thought that was the point of ebanol.
Thanks in advance for help.

[dug dog]

Any chance you can return it as defective?

[Smokin' Toaster]

You may have high or low spots causing buzz on your fingerboard, but your not getting fret buzz on a fretless bass. I've never sanded ebanol, I'd want to hear from someone I trust that it's ok. Also, before I started sanding I'd take the strings off and get a 3"-6" straight edge and use it to see if there are high and low spots along the length of the neck, especially where you detect fret buzz. Good luck.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

So I like many here bought a fretless Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass, and it has noticeable fret lines which I assume is stopping me from getting a playable setup without fret buzz and I am going to attempt to sand them out.

Say what?

Fretlines don't cause buzz and they don't prevent a close set-up. They're just lines that lay on the surface of the fingerboard, at the very same level as the board that surrounds them.

What are you talking about?

MM

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

Say what?

Fretlines don't cause buzz and they don't prevent a close set-up. They're just lines that lay on the surface of the fingerboard, at the very same level as the board that surrounds them.

What are you talking about?

MM

They should be, but they could be slightly higher if the neck is poorly constructed or if they expand/contract differently than the fingerboard. I have a fretless maple SX neck that has this issue (the lines stick out a bit from the board), causing buzzing at many of the "frets", but not in between.

[Sundogue]

Ebonal is the coating on the fretboard. It's the same material bowling balls are made of.

It is possible the the filler used for the fret lines is raised, which would then also raise the finish.

I don't think you'll harm it by wet sanding it to level it. [DISCLAIMER: Just my opinion as I'm no expert on ebanol or fretless basses]. Just make sure the neck is PERFECTLY straight before doing it. And make sure you do it LIGHTLY with each grade of paper. And don't do it unless you are absolutely confident in your ability to do it. AND, you must be sure that by the time you are done and it's level, you haven't sanded away the ebanol over the fret lines (if they indeed are raised). By the time it's level the ebanol might not be thick enough where the fret lines are.

When you are done you can polish it just like they polish bowling balls. Google it. Of course, unlike a bowling ball you'll have to do it by hand because your neck won't fit into a ball polisher.

But DO NOT attempt it if you are not sure of the results!!!

[FunkMetalBass]

Originally Posted by Sundogue

Ebonal is the coating on the fretboard. It's the same material bowling balls are made of.

It is possible the the filler used for the fret lines is raised, which would then also raise the finish.

I don't think you'll harm it by wet sanding it to level it. [DISCLAIMER: Just my opinion as I'm no expert on ebanol or fretless basses]. Just make sure the neck is PERFECTLY straight before doing it. And make sure you do it LIGHTLY with each grade of paper. And don't do it unless you are absolutely confident in your ability to do it. AND, you must be sure that by the time you are done and it's level, you haven't sanded away the ebanol over the fret lines (if they indeed are raised). By the time it's level the ebanol might not be thick enough where the fret lines are.

When you are done you can polish it just like they polish bowling balls. Google it. Of course, unlike a bowling ball you'll have to do it by hand because your neck won't fit into a ball polisher.

But DO NOT attempt it if you are not sure of the results!!!

From another recent thread:

Originally Posted by 202dy

Ebonite is hard vulcanized rubber. It is used for bowling balls.

Ebonol is resin impregnated paper. It is used for fingerboards.

Two very different materials.

EDIT: I agree with everything else, though. Careful work and the results will be unnoticeable.

[Sundogue]

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

From another recent thread:



EDIT: I agree with everything else, though. Careful work and the results will be unnoticeable.

Thanks for clearing that up. What do I know? I don't bowl. D)

[j.kernodle]

not that it matters much, but Ebonite is a brand of bowling ball. not an actual cover material.

bowling balls are covered in either hard polyester plastic, hardened urethane rubber, or a resin compound.

[Koeda]

It happens, had that issue with a Kramer Duke -
As stated:
1. Remove the strings and make neck as straight as possible.
2. Fretlines are much softer than the board, use the finest grit you can to take down the lines. Recommend using wet paper.
3. Keep polishing going incrementally higher with as high as you have - keep the paper wet.
Repeat as required.

[DiabolusInMusic]

I went out and got my sand papers, all wet/dry, and turns out they had 600 grit which was nice. I haven't started yet, jam tonight so maybe tomorrow.

I'll give all the details as to why I think these lines are the cause, could just be low spots but I doubt QC is THAT poor even in indonesia.
This is my first fretless bass, I set it up like I would a normal bass, measuring from the top of the fretboard instead of the fret, but I get string buzz at the first fret. Right now I have the strings jacked WAY up, the G @ 2.21 E @ 2.74 following a 9.5" radius, any lower and it gets much worse.
I've got about .25 @ the nut on the G and .45 on the E, I've been told these nuts need filing but this already seems quite low, much lower than my P. Although the P has had the stock replaced with a TUSQ nut, don't think this would affect it's height.
With the strings at these heights I have the relief at about .2, I'm told it should be basically nil but again it get much worse at the end of the neck with any less relief.
Again these fret lines are ABOVE the level of the fret board and are very noticeable and can easily be felt running your hand up and down the fretboard.

On the note of procedure, I intend to remove the neck from the bass and remove all the tension off the neck. I have de-fretted a wood neck and sanded it down with that method. (I gave up on the epoxy as the mirrorcoat always self leveled.... that's another story)

Keep the help coming, your all very useful. I'll keep you all posted with progress. I'll try and borrow a camera to get some pics.

I did find a good post on this actually after spelling ebonol correct.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

...I'll give all the details as to why I think these lines are the cause...
...I set it up like I would a normal bass, measuring from the top of the fretboard instead of the fret, but I get string buzz at the first fret. Right now I have the strings jacked WAY up, the G @ 2.21 E @ 2.74 following a 9.5" radius, any lower and it gets much worse.
I've got about .25 @ the nut on the G and .45 on the E, I've been told these nuts need filing but this already seems quite low, much lower than my P. Although the P has had the stock replaced with a TUSQ nut, don't think this would affect it's height.
With the strings at these heights I have the relief at about .2, I'm told it should be basically nil but again it get much worse at the end of the neck with any less relief.
Again these fret lines are ABOVE the level of the fret board and are very noticeable and can easily be felt running your hand up and down the fretboard.

Lots of misinformation on this thread already. Ebonol is not a coating. Swapping in a TUSQ nut can and will change the height, if it isn't done correctly. Raised fret lines could cause a buzz similar to fret buzz, but it wouldn't be isolated to the first fret, unless the 2nd line was noticeably higher than the others..

I would urge the OP to take some more measurements, before starting work. Are you mixing inch and mm scales? Those numbers are too large in inches, and too small in mm.

A good starting point if you suspect a hump, is to use a short ruler, rocking it to look for high spots. Don't use a long straightedge, the ends will just sit up on the neck relief.

[DanRJBrasil]

i remember a thread when one sanded ebonol, and the black finish came off , test it before

[DiabolusInMusic]

The nut is factory, I swapped out the TUSQ nut on my Precision, I was looking at it for comparison. All measurement are in millimeters.... I would hate to play your bass if you think those measurements are too high in mm....

Once the strings were off I took my radius block and ran it up and down the neck, the radius was pretty good but you could feel/hear a "tick tick tick" as the block went over the frets

Anyways, I did my sanding yesterday, there are still small humps (I was still mildly worried about ruining it) but they are FAR less pronounced. I started on 600 with a radius sanding block, I might start on 400 next time (I might do it again when I need to change the strings) went up to 800, 1000, 1500, and 2000, I used a foam sanding block for 800 and up. The seller I went to only had 000 and 0000 steel wool in 10 pks, even though it was 10$ I only need 1 so I passed. All my sanding was wet, which kind of formed a slurry as I sanded. It does smell really toxic/plastic while you sand.

The neck doesn't have that same shine, it's noticeable on the top/bottom on the fretboard board and beyond the nut. I am no luthier so I wasn't about to remove the nut and it's glue. This was not done for aesthetics, it was done to make this thing playable.

Finally this bass IS playable, it "mwah"s instead of "bzzzz"s so if your having this issue with your SVMJ (all of the ones I've seen do it) I highly recommend doing it. I own real basses this one won't leave my house so I wasn't concerned about finish, it looks dull now, more like wood. I don't have a camera, sorry.

Once again thanks for the help, I hope this helps somebody else. Now all I need to do is shield the pickups and this might actually be a nice bass.

[Koeda]

Good news -
Having experienced it, had no doubt if done correct you would have success. My Duke hadn't been played in like 10 years when I picked it up. It seemed to be an epoxy fill of the fret markers that had expanded almost to the hight of a fret. Only things I did different were to maintain the use of the radius block up to 2000 grti paper. To get the sheen on the Duke, did not use the steel wool - that will dull the sheen. I used some polishing compound and a orbital polisher normally used for car polish.

"Lots of misinformation on this thread already. Ebonol is not a coating." steve_rolfeca
+1 here. Ebonol is solid and love it for fretless fretboards! Hard sturdy stuff with lots of mwah potential, my fav for sure. If can you sand through it, it ain't an ebonol fretboard.

Didn't get into the setup thing, but also agree as well. A new nut will more than likely need to be cut regardless of the material. The string should be much closer to the board at the nut than your fretted bass. When I cut down the zero fret on the Duke - made it so a business card was snug under each strings at the 'nut'. Other than that did a normal bass set up with low action.

Mwah on,
David

[Foamy]

You state buzzing at first fret position.
Have you checked relief?
Do you have a PERFECTLY FLAT fretboard? (not always a good idea)
Do you have any back-bow?
Be sure you've covered the obvious before trying something like this.
Maybe you just need a touch of relief.
Edit: Too late. Oh well.

[DiabolusInMusic]

Ok, I thought the fretboard was ebonol not just a coating, I got a little worried after that comment that I had removed the coat. Once again though, I had the relief at .2 before the sanding and it was garbage, it's at .2(mm) now and it's much better..... I tried to provide the measurements to clarify I'm not entirely stupid.

Thanks again!

[steve_rolfeca]

FYI, picked up a VM fretless today, and lucked out. There's the slightest of gaps between a couple of the fret lines and the sides of the slots, but there are no high or low points. The action height and relief are perfect, and there's lots of nice, even mwah. No buzz...

[spigmu]

I picked up a used VM fretless last year on cl that I couldn't resist for what it was offered for, and it definitely had a not subtle feeling of fret as you passed your finger over the fretlines. Posted about it here Fretless Squire J neck...with frets! WTH! and later here Getting the fret feel off a defretted neck I chanced upon two others in GCs during that time and they were both the same. I think people didn't get what I was getting at, which was that there definitely seemed to be a weird thing about some of these necks as they come out of the factory, as I played three all with this at every fret line, stock, none had been worked on. I ended up not keeping it rather than dealing with it.

[darkstorm]

If your not well experienced with such sanding you could be gaurateeing yourself a worse playing fretboard when your done sanding due to more uneven spots with sanded down dips. Take it to a qaulified luthier or repair person who can do it right. Unless its just a practice doing sanding on neck and no real value as something you need to have on a bass as its neck. Being cheap about such things and doing it yourself with no expeience can certainly result in a fretboard that can be used as example of what you dont want as end result.