Scale lengths - What is it and what does it do?

[Thom7]

As the title suggest, I have no idea what scale lengths mean.
My current bass is a 36" length, wich mean's the length from nut to bridge is 36". that's where my knowledge and comprehention stops.
A friend of mine has a shortscale bass, wich is (obviously) shorter.
What I can not wrap my mind around is how his bass sounds the same as me (regarding notes and pitch). How can something that is shorter, with the same strings, sound the same?

Also, I'm in the process of making my own bass and if I can get it shorter, my back would be very grateful

[PaulNYC]

You haven't considered that the strings may have different tension, or they may be different strings.

Google: formula STRING tension frequency.

[topo morto]

Originally Posted by Thom7

As the title suggest, I have no idea what scale lengths mean.
My current bass is a 36" length, wich mean's the length from nut to bridge is 36".

scale length is measured from the saddles to the nut - i.e. the vibrating length of the string. 36" is uncommon. What is your bass?

Originally Posted by Thom7

What I can not wrap my mind around is how his bass sounds the same as me (regarding notes and pitch). How can something that is shorter, with the same strings, sound the same?

The same way that you can make your own strings sound higher and lower by moving the tuning pegs, changing the string tension -
all other things being equal, the tension is lower on the short scale instrument, bringing the pitch down.

http://www.tothestage.com/upload/StringTension_1949.pdf

[Slowgypsy]

You mention that your friend has a short scale bass, which is shorter than your 36" scale instrument. Is your friends short scale bass, perhaps, 34"?

[Thom7]

Originally Posted by topo morto

What is your bass?

Whoops, I lied. It's scale length is 35"
The ESP Guitar Company | 2011 USA Website

Originally Posted by topo morto

Info

Hah, thanks for the read. I already found a pdf wich was very similar, but this helped a little more.

If I get it right, as scale lenght goes down, string tension goes down as well, but can be compensated by thinker (higher gauge) strings.
Is that correct?

Seeing this, I think I might make my bass 33"or even 32"

[topo morto]

Originally Posted by Thom7

Whoops, I lied. It's scale length is 35"
The ESP Guitar Company | 2011 USA Website

Coincidentally, I just got a similar guitar, the f405. Enjoying it!

Originally Posted by Thom7

If I get it right, as scale lenght goes down, string tension goes down as well, but can be compensated by thinker (higher gauge) strings.
Is that correct?

Sounds about right to me (assuming you mean 'for a given pitch...')

There is a limit to what you can do with thicker strings, though. the thicker you go, the less they behave like ideal strings and you can get problems with intonation, odd-sounding harmonics, muffled sound...

This is more of a problem for strings below the E string. A bass tuned EADG can be 30" no problem.

Originally Posted by Thom7

Seeing this, I think I might make my bass 33"or even 32"

You can probably make your bass lighter without necessarily cutting the scale length down too much, though. Most of the body on a standard bass doesn't do much... you can kind of get rid of it...

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by topo morto

all other things being equal, the tension is lower on the short scale instrument, bringing the pitch down.

I know what you mean here, but I don't think this is quite totally clear. You're changing two variables at a time in your last sentence and the important comparison is between two basses tuned to the same pitch.

To tune to the SAME particular pitch as a long scale bass, the shorter scale bass will need lower tension or heavier strings (or a combination of both).

To put it another way - pitch is affected by thickness (thinner = higher pitch), tension (tighter = higher pitch) and length (shorter = higher pitch). So, on a shorter scale instrument, you need to use heavier strings or lower tension or both to tune down as low as a longer scale instrument.

[Thom7]

Originally Posted by topo morto

Sounds about right to me (assuming you mean 'for a given pitch...')

Indeed I do, sorry.

Originally Posted by topo morto

There is a limit to what you can do with thicker strings, though. the thicker you go, the less they behave like ideal strings and you can get problems with intonation, odd-sounding harmonics, muffled sound...

Damnit, and here I was hoping I could do a 24"bass with .306 gauge strings...

Originally Posted by topo morto

This is more of a problem for strings below the E string. A bass tuned EADG can be 30" no problem.

My bass is going to be a 6-stringed one. With this new info in mind, I'm thinking of just keeping it 35" just to avoid all the specific things, if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by topo morto

You can probably make your bass lighter without necessarily cutting the scale length down too much, though. Most of the body on a standard bass doesn't do much... you can kind of get rid of it...

Oh you
I really hate the steinberger look. to me, the overall look of my instrument matters as well.

Thanks for the help though.

[topo morto]

Originally Posted by Thom7

Damnit, and here I was hoping I could do a 24"bass with .306 gauge strings...

I'm sure you could... it might sound more like a gamelan than a bass though!

Originally Posted by Thom7

the overall look of my instrument matters as well.

I am definitely not in that camp!

my solution for ease of playing on the lower frets of a long scale instrument:

[Thom7]

Originally Posted by topo morto

Took me a few minutes to realize what it was. That is nifty, but definately not for people in my camp

[BassGen]

Originally Posted by topo morto

I'm sure you could... it might sound more like a gamelan than a bass though!



I am definitely not in that camp!

my solution for ease of playing on the lower frets of a long scale instrument:

Is a Mecano Bass the best bass for metal? No, just kidding. I actually love the ingenuity!

[topo morto]

Originally Posted by BassGen

Is a Mecano Bass the best bass for metal? No, just kidding. I actually love the ingenuity!

It's now even more metal - I've extended it further since that pic, so that the strap button is about level with the 9th fret. IMO it's the right place, unless you are doing a lot of work above the 12th fret.

That's a bass I picked up for £30. One of these days I may have to do this to a better bass, but haven't dared yet!

[Thom7]

What's the best strap extender for metal?