Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Johnson  Like I said, we disagree. And now we disagree even more. |
Maybe not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Johnson I've understood this argument over the years and it's akin to a semantics exercise. Your statement was a contradiction, not almost one. Not sure why you'd want or need to think that of the two things (trussrod and saddle height) only one should be looked at as affecting action when both clearly can and do. |
Some of it is semantics.
I used "action height" and "string height" (I use them interchangeably) for a reason. They are generally understood
to mean string height above a specific fret, e.g. the 17th for a Fender bass. I happen to agree with your use of the
term "action" to mean the entire relation between fretboard and strings. That is why I always referred to it as either
"action height" or "string height". I am speaking of something very specific, a single measurement, as described by
Fender, for example. Ok, I could have been clearer, but they are commonly understood, and it's never caused any
confusion before.
In light of my specific use of the terms, it might make more sense when I say that the truss rod is not used to set the
string height, as I am referring to the height at the 17th fret. It does
affect it, but that is not it's
purpose.
And again, I agree that the truss rod's purpose is to set the
action (as you describe the term).
But who measures the string height at every fret to determine relief? Just as with "action height", there is a commonly
used method for judging relief, e.g. gap above 8th fret for a Fender bass, with string held down at 1st and last fret.
Generally, here on this forum and others, if you you say "action height" or "relief", they will be understood to mean as
described above, or you might be directed to a "sticky" or link that will provide that same information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Johnson The last statement, that action height is nothing but an indicator? Okay, if that terminology works for you, cool. I disagree with that too. No surprise I'd guess. |
This is from the very first post:
"Once the bass has been set up, certain things are not normally going to change by themselves. The
saddles should not move, the angle of the neck where it is set into the body is not going to change,
the string tension is not going to change. But when the strings start buzzing with a change in humidity,
something certainly has changed. The neck has bowed back, reducing the relief and also the action
height. Since the only thing that has changed is the neck bow, adjusting the truss rod should be all
that is needed to restore the bass to exactly where it was."
I was very specific. The only purpose of the adjustment was in
restoring a setup that was good at one
point. And I stand by my claim that using the
original action height as an indicator of the original setup
will get you there. This has nothing to do with initial setups, or changes to a setup. Only restoring a setup
that has changed by neck movement. And also
not from something like loose mounting, which is why
I said "seasonal".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Johnson I don't look at saddle height as action BECAUSE it alone does not determine playability. Action IMO and IME is about playability. Relief is clearly a factor in that along with string height. You could have an otherwise workable string height on a backbowed neck and yet it might not be playable. I think anyone doing these adjustments would be well served to understand this. Then they too can take advantage of them. |
I agree.
I think though that even those that are new to the whole thing, do have easy access to the information
and techniques for setting relief and saddle height. And they should get good results if they follow
some pretty standard procedures. But these procedures require that relief be set first. And the relief
is set with little regard to string height, as long as the height is within reasonable limits. Then you can
adjust the saddles, as this will have little effect on the relief. So in this sense they are independant
adjustments. Truss rod only sets the relief (string height is affected but disregarded) and saddle
height then sets the overall string height. That is the standard procedure for an initial setup.
(edited to add this)
If you wanted to say that the truss rod is used to adjust action, that would be a fair statement.
Maybe one could say that the
procedural purpose of the truss rod is to only adjust relief.
And I think it's important for this reason:
Suppose someone here asks, "I just replaced the neck on my bass and the action's too high.
What do I do?"
I think you would agree that you don't tell them to tighten the truss rod until the strings are
low enough. Neither would you tell them to simply lower the saddles. The relief is unknown
and needs to be set first.
Now how do you do this? Typically, you place a straightedge along the frets and set a certain
gap at a particular fret. That straightedge is usually a tensioned string. You would need to have
an action height in mind in order to settle on a relief gap. Bt the action height is not involved in
the actual adjustment itself, in that it is not measured or observed.
So it is from a purely procedural standpoint that I would say that the truss rod is not used
to adjust action height. For most, who are interested in what to do and how to do it, this is
a useful way to look at it, I think.
). A quick visual check confirmed it ( I sight the neck looking from the nut down towards the bridge). Took out my wrench, a small fraction of a turn later and it was dialed in. Again, I dialed it in straight until I got buzz and then dialed the other way just a touch. I handed it back to him and he was stunned at the difference. It just made the bass so much easier for him to play.
