Setting relief on vintage Fenders and reissues - do I really need to remove the neck?

[Balkan]

Just bought a MIM Classic 60s Jazz and want to set up. I've seen a number of posts where people claim that the neck must be removed to adjust the truss rod. Is this really so?

I have a 72 P-Bass which I picked up used, and there's an indentation in the pickguard indicating it clearly has been adjusted for years without neck removal. I've attached a photo so you can see. I myself have adjusted that neck many times without removing anything.

Can I do the same with my Classic 60s Jazz? Alternately, should I be removing the neck on my P-Bass? And if I do remove the neck, do I have to remove all the strings for every single adjustment?

Thanks in advance!

[Johnny Alien]

Originally Posted by Balkan

Alternately, should I be removing the neck on my P-Bass?

I would but I am not sure whether there is anything wrong with the way you are doing it as long as you get decent enough access to the screw.

Originally Posted by Balkan

And if I do remove the neck, do I have to remove all the strings for every single adjustment?

You do not have to remove the strings. Just detune a bit and then remove the neck. When you are done put the neck back on and tune back up.

[bassbully]

I have two classic series Fenders a 51RI and a 50's classic. On both i have to remove the neck. As said here just detune your strings back out the screws far enough to get to the nut, adjust and put her back tight

[RMay]

Originally Posted by Balkan

Just bought a MIM Classic 60s Jazz and want to set up. I've seen a number of posts where people claim that the neck must be removed to adjust the truss rod. Is this really so?

You do not have to remove the neck. Loosen the strings till the strings nearly fallen off the tuner posts. Then loosen the four bolts at the neck plate 3 full turns. With one hand hold the neck and body together at the neck pocket joint and set the bass down on a flat surface with a cutting board or sheet of foam, whatever household item you can find that will not damage the body finish, place it under the body. You will then notice that the neck will tilt back and expose the truss rod nut. You can begin adjusting the truss rod. Be cautious-(you're likely already aware of) loosen the nut counter-clockwise 1/8 turn then tighten clockwise. If you encounter a lot of resistance....STOP and take it to a pro repairman.

-Richard

[Jefenator]

It's nice to have a capo over the strings near the nut, keep them from rolling all over the place.

(Of course, mine didn't turn up until after I had the neck off half a dozen times. )

[rollcall]

I f you dont have a shim in the neck pocket you are wasting your time.

[John Bigboote]

I have a Classic 60s Jazz, and a Japanese Franken-P with a 57 RI neck. Neither allowed adjustments without removing the neck. So I took a router to both bodies, created enough of a pocket to allow me to get a right-angle screwdriver in there. So much for that!

-jb

[Jim Carr]

Boy, boys, boys. Your education has been neglected.

I have a 60's classic, as well as a couple of older Fender P-basses. I have owned other Fender basses since 1968. I have never removed the neck or loosened the neck screws to turn a Fender bass truss rod adjuster with a screwdriver. You just angle the screwdriver.

With the strings slack and the bass lying horizontal on its back on a towel, hold the bass steady, insert a screwdriver into the truss slot such that the shaft is at about 20 degrees above horizontal, and turn.

You will need a screwdriver with a fairly broad tip of flat/slot-head type (NOT phillips), a shaft at least 8 inches long, and perhaps a large diameter handgrip.

I suggest getting out your toolbox and trying a few.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by RMay

...loosen the four bolts at the neck plate 3 full turns. With one hand hold the neck and body together at the neck pocket joint and set the bass down...You will then notice that the neck will tilt back and expose the truss rod nut...

There is a risk to this. If the neck tilts back too much, you may crack the finish on the leading edges of the pocket. I know, I've done it.

Furthermore, the number of times the neck screws get tightened and loosened is not something you want to bump up. Eventually, neck screws will enlarge the holes, and they won't tighten without shims. Things can get even worse, to where you might need to dowel and re-drill the holes in the neck. You don't want this.

Treat the pocket and neck screw holes with care.

[Balkan]

Thanks all! Interesting to see all of these different approaches.

Jim - what you describe right down to the screwdriver type is exactly what I've been doing already - the only difference is that I've just held the bass on my lap in the playing position rather than laying it down flat, although I'm sure there is a reason to do it the way you do. Otherwise, though, your post seems to confirm that I'm good to go the way I've already been doing it. Thanks!

[202dy]

The flat screwdriver method works. So does the tilt method. We use these methods to avoid removing and replacing the strings and the neck when making a truss rod adjustment. There are risks to both methods.

There are two risks to the flat screwdriver method. The first is a slipping screwdriver. If the truss rod nut is at an awkward position it might be necessary to use a smaller bladed screwdriver to turn the nut before a larger one can be inserted. It is not uncommon for the screwdriver to slip off the nut. This can happen with the larger screwdriver, too. When it slips it may scratch or gouge the pickguard or the finish. The other is rounding out the access hole in the neck. This can happen on a deeply set nut when a huge screwdriver is used.

Tilting the neck out of the pocket avoids these risks. However, as Jim pointed out, it is pretty easy to crack the neck finish. It is also possible to crack the nut if the neck is twisted to a severe angle. Rarely, but it is known to happen. The damage that can be caused by enlarging the holes in the neck is also very real. When that happens, the holes will require plugging and boring.

The damage caused by these accidents are all advanced repairs. Most folks will either be forced to take the guitar to a pro for a repair or learn to live with it. By the way, advanced repairs are usually expensive.

Some pickguards have a dished out area near the truss rod nut. They seem made to allow a bit more access to the truss rod nut. A drummer friend of mine, a guy I've known since high school, once brought his recently deceased father's mid sixties Precision Bass to me for a set up. It was a simple job on a vintage guitar. I was busy with a neck set so I assigned the work to my very experienced apprentice. A few days after the drummer took it home I got a phone call. He accused me of scratching the dished out area on the pickguard. I asked him to bring it in so I could see it. The gouge had plenty (thirty or so years) of dirt in it. I pointed that out to him and told him his dad or whomever his dad had work on it was the one who did that. He said that the pickguard didn't look like that before he brought it to us. Since my apprentice did the setup and I didn't see him do it, I could not refute his argument to his satisfaction. The apprentice swears that he tilted the neck. Things have never been the same between the us.

What do I do? It depends. If I'm in a hurry and it's one of my guitars I will use a flat bladed screwdriver and leave the neck in place. Otherwise, I tilt the neck. Client guitar necks are always tilted.

[GianGian]

I have a bass like this but I have never had to make any adjustments. I was just thinking, is it possible to make some modifications and make it just like the "usual" (and much more intelligent) truss rod access near the headstock? I can't understand how people still make instruments like that. It is OK in reissues, but mine is not a reissue.

[Balkan]

Interesting - did you happen to check out the photo I attached of my P-Bass? There definitely are gouges in the pickguard and finish! Not sure whether I have the second problem. But I don't mind at all if the risks are merely aesthetic. Rounding out the access hole sounds potentially more serious though.

Originally Posted by 202dy

There are two risks to the flat screwdriver method. The first is a slipping screwdriver. If the truss rod nut is at an awkward position it might be necessary to use a smaller bladed screwdriver to turn the nut before a larger one can be inserted. It is not uncommon for the screwdriver to slip off the nut. This can happen with the larger screwdriver, too. When it slips it may scratch or gouge the pickguard or the finish. The other is rounding out the access hole in the neck. This can happen on a deeply set nut when a huge screwdriver is used.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by Balkan

Interesting - did you happen to check out the photo I attached of my P-Bass? There definitely are gouges in the pickguard and finish! Not sure whether I have the second problem. But I don't mind at all if the risks are merely aesthetic. Rounding out the access hole sounds potentially more serious though.

The gouges in the pickguard are tool marks. If the user had used his screwdriver at an angle like Jim Carr suggested they probably could have avoided the damage. The scratches could be caused by fingernails digging in, a pick, or wiping off dirt and dust. Pickgaurds material isn't very hard.

The nut on the neck is almost flush with the edge. The edge of the hole appears to be fine. Rounding out the edge of the access hole is cosmetic damage. There would not be a structural problem.

[Pilgrim]

Here's a trick for "youse gize".

Instead of a screwdriver, use the tool which opens paint cans. The tip is bent nearly 90 degrees and it will fit right into the slots on the end of the truss rod nut. This works if the nut isn't under a lot of tension and therefore doesn't require a lot of torque to turn.

I've used one on my '63 P which doesn't have a lot of room to turn the nut - worked very nicely. Didn't have to loosen the neck, and no damage to the PG.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by rollcall

I f you dont have a shim in the neck pocket you are wasting your time.

Really? Could you explain?

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by Jim Carr

Boy, boys, boys. Your education has been neglected.

I have a 60's classic, as well as a couple of older Fender P-basses. I have owned other Fender basses since 1968. I have never removed the neck or loosened the neck screws to turn a Fender bass truss rod adjuster with a screwdriver. You just angle the screwdriver.

With the strings slack and the bass lying horizontal on its back on a towel, hold the bass steady, insert a screwdriver into the truss slot such that the shaft is at about 20 degrees above horizontal, and turn.

You will need a screwdriver with a fairly broad tip of flat/slot-head type (NOT phillips), a shaft at least 8 inches long, and perhaps a large diameter handgrip.

I suggest getting out your toolbox and trying a few.

This was the first thing i thought of doing when i went to adjust my basses. I had screwdrivers too large or to small nothing in the middle so i loosened and tilted back .I see your point and agree but the nut access has to be right for the tool

[Pilgrim]

There is considerable variation in how deeply the truss rod nut is recessed into the body relative to the PG. If it's really buried down in the body, you should really loosen the strings and neck regardless of what tool you use.

And I don't understand the comment about the shim at all - it makes no sense. Disregard it.

Listen to 202dy. He knows his stuff.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

There is considerable variation in how deeply the truss rod nut is recessed into the body relative to the PG. If it's really buried down in the body, you should really loosen the strings and neck regardless of what tool you use.

And I don't understand the comment about the shim at all - it makes no sense. Disregard it.

Listen to 202dy. He knows his stuff.

Check's in the mail.

[Balkan]

Awesome everyone - thanks so much! To follow up on one final q, does it matter whether the bass is lying on the floor or table on a towel v. just sitting on my lap when I do the adjustment?