Setting string height on my own after a pro setup

Mobile Sprout · #1 11-14-2009, 01:08 PM

I've had a few pro-setups done on my basses.. but lately I've been wanting to experiment with lower action on all of them.

If I lower the string saddles, and then correct the intonation with the saddle position screws (if needed, as by my tuner), that is basically all I need to do to set a new action, right?

There is no magical step that will somehow "undo" the work of the pro tech that set up the instrument? (as long as I don't switch string types, requiring a truss rod adjustment)

Oh, more important question: I lower the strings uniformly, right? They should already be radiused to the fingerboard; if I lower each string by the same amount the proper radius should be preserved, right?

I figure if I just record the number of wrench turns/etc, I can revert back to the pro-setup if I want.

scotch · #2 11-14-2009, 01:14 PM

Take some measurements of where your setup is currently at with a machinist's ruler (at least 64th's of an inch accuracy). Then, you can revert back accurately, if needed.

There's certainly no harm in what you propose. However, action is a combination of nut, truss rod, frets, bridge, etc combined. They all work in relation to each other. If you're only going to make a minor adjustment, your truss rod should be fine- but if you are trying to lower significantly, then neck relief (truss rod related) plays a major role!

Hugh Jass · #3 11-14-2009, 08:24 PM

+1 All too often saddle height and neck relief are looked at independently. A great setup is a function of both.

That is not to say that you should not try lowering your saddles. If you lower them a bit and don't get fretbuzz when playing up the neck then you are good to go! If they do buzz then back up they go. At least all adjustments are reversable.

Meatrus · #4 11-15-2009, 05:55 AM

Give it a try, set up to me is a personal thing. I have never paid for a setup, but I have bought basses that have just been professionally setup. Both times the pro setup needed altering to how I prefer it.

So I feel it is a very useful skill, and in my case a necessary one. It seems from the OP you may be thinking it is a lot more complicated than it actually is, which it does seem when you read about it. The reality is, its not, and short of being a complete idiot there is nothing to get wrong that will be ireversable.

PJSShearer · #5 11-15-2009, 09:40 AM

+1 to everything said above. Within reason, you can't do any harm to your Bass by messing with the saddle heights and intonation - you can always move it back, or if worst comes to worst you can get it professionally set up again (just take it somewhere else so you don't come over as a complete dork :-)!!). The truss rod should be fine as long as you don't tighten or loosen it too much in one go - unless the neck is way bowed (and as your Bass has recently had a "professional" setup, it won't be) then a quarter turn at a time is the most you should need to move it, then let it settle for a few hours before moving it again.

One thing I will say is that after you have made your adjustments to your Bass, make sure you play it through your amp at the volume you normally play and the way you normally play it. I found this out the hard way when the new low action I'd achieved when "noodling" gently with the bass across my knee and a headphone amp was a "tad" too low when playing the gig that evening standing up with the Bass strapped on!!.

Mobile Sprout · #6 11-16-2009, 01:39 PM

Thanks for the advice. I just need to find a hardware store that carries a ruler with 64ths on it.. (Home Depot does not!)

As to the neck relief, I had always heard this was not a tool for string height adjustments - the neck relief is fixed for a given string tension (outside of extreme scenarios). I suppose this opinion varies.

It seems like the effect of neck relief (or lack thereof) would diminish as you moved higher on the neck (just thinking about how the neck curves away from the body). If the bass doesn't buzz for notes in first position... then the neck has the proper relief. Buzzing on the high frets ends up being related only to the string saddle height (and fret workmanship).

scotch · #7 11-16-2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobile Sprout

Thanks for the advice. I just need to find a hardware store that carries a ruler with 64ths on it.. (Home Depot does not!)

As to the neck relief, I had always heard this was not a tool for string height adjustments - the neck relief is fixed for a given string tension (outside of extreme scenarios). I suppose this opinion varies.

It seems like the effect of neck relief (or lack thereof) would diminish as you moved higher on the neck (just thinking about how the neck curves away from the body). If the bass doesn't buzz for notes in first position... then the neck has the proper relief. Buzzing on the high frets ends up being related only to the string saddle height (and fret workmanship).

Proper neck relief determines the potential of how low your action can get without buzzing or fret rattle. It's not a tool for string height- true, however too little or too much relief can hamper efforts to lower your action.

Pilgrim · #8 11-17-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobile Sprout

Thanks for the advice. I just need to find a hardware store that carries a ruler with 64ths on it.. (Home Depot does not!)

If you have a Harbor Freight nearby, they carry a machinist's pocket rule that has 64ths for just a few bucks. Sears may also have something.

Hugh Jass · #9 11-18-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobile Sprout

It seems like the effect of neck relief (or lack thereof) would diminish as you moved higher on the neck (just thinking about how the neck curves away from the body). If the bass doesn't buzz for notes in first position... then the neck has the proper relief. Buzzing on the high frets ends up being related only to the string saddle height (and fret workmanship).

That would be the general idea but not quite a truism.

It is possible (I know because I have encountered it) to have a bit too much relief and saddles too low. No buzz in the first few positions but lots of buzz higher up the neck. This was because, relative to the string line, the 24th fret was actually higher than the 12th and was choking off the strings. The action looked consistent down the neck but it was actually a bit higher at the 12th than the 24th. When you fretted the 1st and 24th fret there was a gap of several mm at the 12th. My ideal relief is to have a gap about the thickness of a business card when you do this.

**Captain Bob** · #10 11-20-2009, 12:12 PM

Outfits such as 'Grainger' will stock a machinist scale too. Or, simply Google "Starrett machinist scale" to determine if you have a vendor nearby.

There's some good advice here and many of us perform our own set-ups. And, it is a combination of the above mentioned factors...plus some voodoo.
It's been my general experience, the lower the action, the straighter the neck. Fret choking/neck issues aside, if your playing style/string choice depicts a buzz below say, the 6th fret, you need greater (loosen) relief. Buzzing above the 6th, less relief (tighten). I wouldn't turn more than 1/8 turn at a time and it can take a day or two for the neck to settle after each attempt. It may take a few days to dial it in perfectly. Also, each small turn will most likely cause you to re-intonate depending on what device you're using and how finely it discriminates. I use a Peterson 490 for this work, and it will depict the slightest intonation deviation from neck movement. That said, I'm sure the deviation is not audible, only readable.

eyecandy · #11 11-20-2009, 04:52 PM

what would happen if you turn the truss rod more than once?? lets say... 2 tightening quarter turns then finding out that the neck was tightened.. immediately turned again 2 and a half loosening turns

davecanady · #12 11-20-2009, 05:16 PM

Give it a try. I would go broke if I didn't do my own. Keep track of each adjustment. Necks take a little time to settle in. Give it a few hours if you've adjusted the truss rod. It may continue to change. Don't forget to tune to the loosest tension tuning you use. I use drop D for a number of songs so my neck is set to work well if I play lightly but still works beautifully with regular tuning. If you do it the other way and try to have really low action at regular tuning, you may end up with all fret buzz when you drop to D.

mjbing · #13 11-22-2009, 07:41 PM

I had a pro setup on my $$.
Still not low enough.
Tightened the truss rod a half turn.
Perfection
The neck was absolutly flat.
It had Roto Jazz 77's on it at the time.
Changed to Elixir's, even better.
This neck is so fast now, I find a speeding
ticket every time I open the case.

michael