setting up a fretless

rxtech · #1 08-23-2006, 11:15 PM

Could someone give me some measurements or post a link on setting up a fretless? I did use the search button

. Not a lot mind you, but I did

Thanks for any info!

dukerutledge · #2 08-23-2006, 11:23 PM

I setup my fretless the same as a fretted except instead of open note and 12th frett I use the open string and 12th and 5th frett harmonics. Just remember that the 5th frett harmonic is not the same as the open note and 12th harmonic, is the fourth.

shaun.meyer · #3 08-23-2006, 11:48 PM

I was looking for threads on this subject a few days ago after brutally ripping out the frets on a cheapy crate bass. I hadn't realized I could use harmonics to set intonation.

rxtech · #4 08-23-2006, 11:48 PM

What was the height of your strings?

dukerutledge · #5 08-23-2006, 11:51 PM

my string height is ultra low, but really I have no idea if it is an acurate method, but it works for me and I haven't had any intonation problems so I assume that it is reliable and effective.

Jeff Martinez · #6 08-23-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukerutledge

I setup my fretless the same as a fretted except instead of open note and 12th frett I use the open string and 12th and 5th frett harmonics. Just remember that the 5th frett harmonic is not the same as the open note and 12th harmonic, is the fourth.

I may be way off base here, but... It seems to me that using harmonics will NOT give you the same results as actually fingering the note when setting up intonation. A 12th fret harmonic will always be exactly 1 octave higher than the open string, regardless of the distance from nut to saddle.

I apologize if I sound like an a-hole. I'm not saying that you're wrong. It just doesn't make sense to do it this way. I've never set-up a fretless, so it's very possible that I'm completely wrong.

dukerutledge · #7 08-23-2006, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Martinez

I may be way off base here, but... It seems to me that using harmonics will NOT give you the same results as actually fingering the note when setting up intonation. A 12th fret harmonic will always be exactly 1 octave higher than the open string, regardless of the distance from nut to saddle.

I apologize if I sound like an a-hole. I'm not saying that you're wrong. It just doesn't make sense to do it this way. I've never set-up a fretless, so it's very possible that I'm completely wrong.

yeah, thats why I told him I don't know if its correct...

shaun.meyer · #8 08-24-2006, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Martinez

A 12th fret harmonic will always be exactly 1 octave higher than the open string, regardless of the distance from nut to saddle.

Phooey. I wish I had something way out so I could test this.

dukerutledge · #9 08-24-2006, 12:07 AM

well last time I setup my bass the 12th frett harmonic was off in comparison to the open tone, only by a few cents though. So i'm not sure it was my tuner or if it was actually off. The 5th frett harmonic was also off.

shaun.meyer · #10 08-24-2006, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukerutledge

well last time I setup my bass the 12th frett harmonic was off in comparison to the open tone, only by a few cents though.

Were you able to correct this with the intonation adjustments?

dukerutledge · #11 08-24-2006, 12:10 AM

yes, the 12th frett adjusted quite easily and within a large range but the 5th frett took more fine adjustments. So it seems like it works to me, I'd like one of the experts to pop in here to tell me if I'm spewing bull**** though.

Burg · #12 08-24-2006, 07:25 AM

http://garywillis.com/pages/bass/bas...tupmanual.html

pkr2 · #13 08-24-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukerutledge

yes, the 12th frett adjusted quite easily and within a large range but the 5th frett took more fine adjustments. So it seems like it works to me, I'd like one of the experts to pop in here to tell me if I'm spewing bull**** though.

No, you are just saying what you observed. However, and this is one of the few "written in stone" truthisms: The octave harmonic as well as all the natural harmonic points are always in exact tune with the open string, regardless of the bridge adjustment, tuning or any other factors. It's a matter of the law of physics.

I would suspect the tuner if I ever ran into what you describe.

Just a little something to think about: Intonation is when you are attempting to make each fretted note play in tune. A fretless has no frets so all you can do is make the harmonics, usually at the 12th fret position, play in the same place on all the strings. Making the string shorter just moves the octave point closer to the nut. longer moves it toward the bridge.

It serves no purpose to attempt to make the notes play in perfect tune at each fret line because you can't see the witness point under your fretting finger as you play a note anyway. Press the string down a little harder or lighter, with your finger in a particular position and the note will change pitch slightly as the fingertip pad spreads or becomes smaller. Remember that there is no adjustment on the bass for finger pressure on the string, so any "intonation" points are slightly arbitrary, depending on how hard the string is pressed down.

You will notice that a URB, a violin or cello never has a bridge with intonation adjustments. If compensation is needed, the whole bridge is simply skewed at a very slight angle if compensation is needed.

The bridge saddles are usually at a slight angle, but in a straight line with the lowest string longer than the highest string by roughly the diameter of the lowest string. This is not an intonation adjustment, although it IS a compensation adjustment.

This subject usually opens a can of worms, so if you disagree with what I've said. please do it in a civil manner. LOL

Nick Ioannucci · #14 08-24-2006, 12:08 PM

you intonate the same way you would when you intonate a fretted bass, find the harmonic, and press down, if theyre different, intonate the bass, its not super important, as its fretless and you should be able to compensate and know when your notes are out of tune. intonation is a little bit more of an aproximation in my opinion for a fretless. as for string height, set it how ever you like. same as a fretted. i set mine as low as i can get it without any buzzing. everything is basically the same as a fretted bass. all IMO of course.

rxtech · #15 08-24-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burg

http://garywillis.com/pages/bass/bas...tupmanual.html

And thanks also to you Burg for the Gary Willis Link!!

massaloch · #16 09-06-2006, 06:27 PM

any rules of thumb about measuring relief and action on a fretless? I've setup my own guitars for sometime, so I dont anticipate any problems as far as mechanics go, but not having played bass before (except for minor noodling) I'm wondering what a good starting point is for relief and action - fender's setup page http://www.fender.com/support/setup/basssetup.php doesn't mention fretless - do the same distances apply, where string to fret is measured, measure string to fingerboard? Ultimately I setup my guitars relief and action such that it "feels right" and doesn't buzz, but I have no idea what "feels right" on a base yet - with the exception of a fretless warwick corvette I met at GC (which made me decide to go fretless) every one I've noodled with seemed to have action way way to high (I have no idea which retailers dont do basic setups on the floor models - it's a five minute job to get reasonably close (ie 1/4 inch action of an electric guitar is a little silly, and pickups 1/2 from the strings is too). Anyway, I can certainly wing it ...

Mark