Setup or...

[tekdiver500ft]

This may be in the wrong forum, if so, I apologize and encourage the mods to move it where it should be...

Background: About a month ago, I purchased a new Squier® Vintage Modified Fretless Jazz Bass® with factory Fender roundwound strings, running through a HARTKE HA-1200 (120 watt 1x12 combo). This is both my first Squier and my first fretless. It was professionally set up by my local GC prior to delivery. I play fingerstyle exclusively, floating thumb anchored over the neck pup.

Problem 1: Exceedingly erratic tone. I adjust the bass and amp until the tone is what I want, but after a few minutes, the tone changes on me. Sometimes it gets really muddy, other times it gets unbelievably bright. In the last couple of weeks, I have begun getting way too much finger noise pretty consistently (nothing changed in playing style afaik).

Problem 2: I am getting a lot of buzz from the fretboard, especially on the E string, even more especially when playing F# through B. It becomes progressively less as I move up through the fretboard and strings. There is no noise at all on the G string above Bb.

Query: What is causing these issues, and how do I go about fixing them?

Thanks so much in advance for your help.

[tangentmusic]

Fretboard buzz sounds like a combo of bridge intonation on E string and/or a truss rod adjustment. Erratic tone - ??

[CpTCrunch]

Originally Posted by tangentmusic

Fretboard buzz sounds like a truss rod adjustment. Erratic tone - ??

Exactly.

Here's a decent post about it:
Low action without fret buzz?

@erratic tone, I have no idea, try a different amp and see if it still does it. If so somethings up with the electronics - but don't ask me what lol...

[tekdiver500ft]

Thanks for the quick responses, guys. I'll try a different amp, see if that does it. I know it does it whether I'm listening through headphones or the speaker (don't know if that matters or not), but I'll try a different amp. It may at least narrow it down.

I'll check out the fret buzz post, too. Thanks for the link.

[202dy]

It is difficult to diagnose set up problems over the internet without hard data. Measure string height at the twelfth and the last fret on both bass and treble sides (usually done in 64ths of an inch). Measure relief at the seventh fret (usually done in thousandths of an inch). Post the data here and someone will help.

Intonation has nothing to do with fret buzz.

The Gary Willis link was removed from the sticky because it is strictly trial and error. It is time consuming and it is not repeatable.

[tekdiver500ft]

Well, I hooked up to another amp, and had no issues, so the tone problem is the amp. Good to know, but now I need a new amp, too...

I have no way to measure 64ths of an inch, let alone thousandths. I may have to try the Gary Willis method anyway. I hate to pay for a setup on a brand new (and freshly setup) instrument.

Query: would strings breaking in cause this since the instrument is new, or is the neck breaking in, or is it the weather changing, or...?

[tekdiver500ft]

Another question: I want to switch to flatwound strings anyway, will that change the setup? If so, in what direction? That is, if I switch to flatwound strings, will that alleviate the problem, or make it worse? I am continually amazed by the knowledge and helpfulness of the members here. Thanks so much for your help and insight.

[tangentmusic]

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

Well, I hooked up to another amp, and had no issues, so the tone problem is the amp. Good to know, but now I need a new amp, too...

I have no way to measure 64ths of an inch, let alone thousandths. I may have to try the Gary Willis method anyway. I hate to pay for a setup on a brand new (and freshly setup) instrument.

Query: would strings breaking in cause this since the instrument is new, or is the neck breaking in, or is it the weather changing, or...?

Sometimes. Necks can get out of whack with the changing weather. Learn to adjust it yourself. Hint: turn allen wrench in very small increments. Check bow or relief by looking down neck in both directions. Strings can also have a little settling in time.

[tangentmusic]

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

Another question: I want to switch to flatwound strings anyway, will that change the setup? If so, in what direction? That is, if I switch to flatwound strings, will that alleviate the problem, or make it worse? I am continually amazed by the knowledge and helpfulness of the members here. Thanks so much for your help and insight.

If the flats are the the same gauge, re-setup should be minimal.

[tekdiver500ft]

Thanks, guys. I'll give this a whirl and let you know what develops.

[CpTCrunch]

Originally Posted by 202dy

The Gary Willis link was removed from the sticky because it is strictly trial and error. It is time consuming and it is not repeatable.

But if you have the time and are interested in getting the lowest action possible trial and error is the only way.
Generalized measurements will only get you so far.

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

I want to switch to flatwound strings anyway

Personally I would change the strings before adjusting the string height or truss rod.
And as tangentmusic said, when adjusting the truss rod do it in very small increments.

There's loads of info about truss rod adjustment on the web:
Google Read as much as you can before trying it

[202dy]

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

Well, I hooked up to another amp, and had no issues, so the tone problem is the amp. Good to know, but now I need a new amp, too...

I have no way to measure 64ths of an inch, let alone thousandths. I may have to try the Gary Willis method anyway. I hate to pay for a setup on a brand new (and freshly setup) instrument.

Query: would strings breaking in cause this since the instrument is new, or is the neck breaking in, or is it the weather changing, or...?

64ths: Five dollar ruler from the large home center on the four lane or the local hardware store in town.

Thousandths: Five dollar set of feeler gauges found at the places above.

There is no "break in" period for strings and necks. There are forces being exerted on the neck by the strings and counteracted by the neck and truss rod.

Changing weather will have an effect on necks made of wood.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by CpTCrunch

But if you have the time and are interested in getting the lowest action possible trial and error is the only way.
Generalized measurements will only get you so far.

Agreed. However, using tools and measurements allows a tech to quickly establish a starting point (baseline) from which to work. The more accurate the tools and usage, the quicker this is achieved. When precision straight edges are used relief can be pinpointed as well as problems with the playing surface (frets or fretless) itself.

Having the time: Obviously saving time is important for the professional as their income is determined by the number of pieces that cross the bench every day. But everybody's time is valuable. There is always something else to be done. Considering work, home life, practice, rehearsal, gigging, etc, why would anyone want to hunt and peck for an hour or two doing a simple set up when using the right tools reduces the time to ten or fifteen minutes?

The ability to use tools is what differentiates us from lower primates. Why monkey around?

[Melik]

Are you afraid of getting sued of breaking copyrights by adding ® -badges aft the words Squier and Jazz Bass??

[CpTCrunch]

Originally Posted by 202dy

Agreed. However, using tools and measurements allows a tech to quickly establish a starting point (baseline) from which to work. The more accurate the tools and usage, the quicker this is achieved. When precision straight edges are used relief can be pinpointed as well as problems with the playing surface (frets or fretless) itself.

Having the time: Obviously saving time is important for the professional as their income is determined by the number of pieces that cross the bench every day. But everybody's time is valuable. There is always something else to be done. Considering work, home life, practice, rehearsal, gigging, etc, why would anyone want to hunt and peck for an hour or two doing a simple set up when using the right tools reduces the time to ten or fifteen minutes?

The ability to use tools is what differentiates us from lower primates. Why monkey around?

Most people I know do their own setups.
And none of them use anything other than a set of allen wrenches.

Hell you could probably teach a "lower primate" how to fret a note and signal whether its buzzing or not.
This isn't rocket science.

[JLS]

I hate to pay for a setup on a brand new (and freshly setup) instrument.

"Professionally set up by my local GC ", can very often be an oxymoron. In your case, it sounds as though you don't have enough relief in your neck.

If you want to switch to flats, yes, you will need a different setup. Preferably by someone who knows what he/she is doing.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by tangentmusic

If the flats are the the same gauge, re-setup should be minimal.

I've never seen a set of flats intonate the same as the same gauge of rounds. Flats can generally be set for lower action than rounds, as well.

[tangentmusic]

Originally Posted by JLS

I've never seen a set of flats intonate the same as the same gauge of rounds. Flats can generally be set for lower action than rounds, as well.

I switched from rounds to flats on one of my basses. Used the same gauge. Barely had to adjust anything. Slight bridge adjustments was all. That was my experience anyway..

[tekdiver500ft]

Originally Posted by 202dy

64ths: Five dollar ruler from the large home center on the four lane or the local hardware store in town.

Thousandths: Five dollar set of feeler gauges found at the places above.

There is no "break in" period for strings and necks. There are forces being exerted on the neck by the strings and counteracted by the neck and truss rod.

Changing weather will have an effect on necks made of wood.

Excellent information, thanks. I'll have to get these tools, and take a crack at this.

Originally Posted by Melik

Are you afraid of getting sued of breaking copyrights by adding ® -badges aft the words Squier and Jazz Bass??

No, just copy and paste to ensure accuracy, as model differences could make a difference.

Originally Posted by JLS

"Professionally set up by my local GC ", can very often be an oxymoron. In your case, it sounds as though you don't have enough relief in your neck.

If you want to switch to flats, yes, you will need a different setup. Preferably by someone who knows what he/she is doing.

Supposedly, these guys (Elderly Instruments) know their stuff, but who knows for sure, you know? When I change strings, I'll give setup a try. I think. Either that, or I'll find a better service center. Maybe both...

Originally Posted by JLS

I've never seen a set of flats intonate the same as the same gauge of rounds. Flats can generally be set for lower action than rounds, as well.

If true, then I may not need to adjust, right? Since I'm getting buzz now...

Originally Posted by tangentmusic

I switched from rounds to flats on one of my basses. Used the same gauge. Barely had to adjust anything. Slight bridge adjustments was all. That was my experience anyway..

Good to know.

Again, thanks to all for your help.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by tekdiver500ft

Excellent information, thanks. I'll have to get these tools, and take a crack at this.



No, just copy and paste to ensure accuracy, as model differences could make a difference.



Supposedly, these guys (Elderly Instruments) know their stuff, but who knows for sure, you know? When I change strings, I'll give setup a try. I think. Either that, or I'll find a better service center. Maybe both...



If true, then I may not need to adjust, right? Since I'm getting buzz now...



Good to know.

Again, thanks to all for your help.

The repair shop at Elderly employs some of the best techs and luthiers in the USA.