Shim vs nut filing

[2funkyfinger]

Hi All,

I usually play with very low action on my bass. Recently, I came across this bass that still maintained a medium action even when the bridge saddles are lowered to the max. The neck has also a very mild relief.

I read on Dan Erlewine's book that either a neck shim or lowering the slot on the nut will work. My question is, how do I assess whether my bass needs a shim or a filing of the nut?

Is there some basic checks that I can carry out?

Thanks for your input!

2.f.f.

[walterw]

look at the string height over the first fret (from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string); now hold down the string at the first fret and look at the string height over the second fret.

if the open strings are way higher than the fretted strings, you could stand to get the nut filed down a bit.

[mongo2]

I hold down each string at the third fret so it also contacts the second fret and look at the space between the string and the first fret to see if there's more than a hair or two of clearance. If there is, the nut slots could probably be filed lower. If you're not familiar with the work or don't have the proper tools, take it to a competent tech.

[Diogenes]

What walterw and mongo2 said. IMHO cutting nut grooves to the proper height and shimming a neck are two different things and address different issues. They are both things to consider when setting a bass up for optimal playability but one does not replace the other.

The issue you have were you can not longer lower the saddles yet still have higher than preferred action can be rectified in several ways. The easiest is to shim the neck. The other alternatives are to route out a pocket for the bridge so that it is recessed in the body a little, replace the saddles (depending on the make of bridge that's on there at present) or replace the whole bridge with one of a different design that allows you to lower the string height. But like I said, shimming is the easiest and certainly is an acceptable way to resolve your issue.

But also, don't forget to make sure your nut slots are cut to the correct depth.

[2funkyfinger]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for all your advice and inputs. It is starting to make sense to me now. My issue started when I changed from the Hipshot A bridge to the Badass bridge. Didn't realise that the added mass also brought about increased action.

I added a neck shim yesterday, and the action is better now but not optimum. At least I managed to get some clearance between the bottom of the saddle and the bridge. I realised that the Badass saddles require filiing, and that will probably be the next thing that I will embark on.

I have also done a check on the nut as suggested by Mongo2 and Walterw. The nut seems to be high as well. The clearance of the open string is more then twice the clearance of the fretted string. Will need to do some work on that too.

[bassbully]

Always try the shim first. Cutting the nut to deep will only cost you money in the long run and time..a shim only a playing or business card.

[walterw]

true, but the bass will never play well until the nut height is addressed.

[Metal Mitch]

Originally Posted by 2funkyfinger

I realised that the Badass saddles require filiing, and that will probably be the next thing that I will embark on.

You didn't file the saddles yet? No wonder your action is high. Do that first. You don't have to go deep enough to replace a neck shim, but at least enough to set your string spacing. It will lower the height a bit.

Originally Posted by Diogenes

cutting nut grooves to the proper height and shimming a neck are two different things and address different issues.

This.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by 2funkyfinger

Hi All,

I usually play with very low action on my bass. Recently, I came across this bass that still maintained a medium action even when the bridge saddles are lowered to the max. The neck has also a very mild relief.

I read on Dan Erlewine's book that either a neck shim or lowering the slot on the nut will work. My question is, how do I assess whether my bass needs a shim or a filing of the nut?

Is there some basic checks that I can carry out?

Thanks for your input!

2.f.f.

Others have probably already said this, I'll just concur with them:

Your first step should be properly filing the nut. You need to have this done whether or not you move on to adjust the neck pocket or bridge.

I have found in many cases that shallow nut slots have been the sole cause of set up/playbility/intonation problems on my basses and guitars, and having them properly filed solves the problem.

If that doesn't work, then look at the neck pocket and shimming. But only if you really have to. Getting your BA bridge slotted is a good idea if you need to, but sometimes they are fine as-is. Be sure to find someone who really knows what they're doing if you get the BA slotted.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by walterw

true, but the bass will never play well until the nut height is addressed.

/thread.

[MNAirHead]

totally different... issues.

when in doubt don't file... if you don't own $$$$ files.. dont' file.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

totally different... issues.

when in doubt don't file... if you don't own $$$$ files.. dont' file.

That was kind of my point. Anyone can shim and not damage but to file a nut you need the proper files and know what you are doing. You could ruin the nut and need to replace it costing time and money.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

totally different... issues.

when in doubt don't file... if you don't own $$$$ files.. dont' file.

That was kind of my point. Anyone can shim and not damage but to file a nut you need the proper files and know what you are doing. You could ruin the nut and need to replace it costing time and money.

[walterw]

that point's so good it was worth posting twice!

the same goes for the badass saddles, don't touch them unless you really know what you're doing (like how will you space the strings over the pickup magnets, and is the neck aligned with the body and pickups before you do?), and have the right files, which aren't cheap.

you can't unfile the saddles, and replacements are expensive these days.

[2funkyfinger]

Yup, fully agree with your thoughts!

I'm wondering why Badass comes with unfiled saddles. Although the option to determine the string spacing is good, but for the regular player who wants a bridge upgrade, having to file the saddles does require quite a bit of skill and tools to get it right.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

when in doubt don't file... if you don't own $$$$ files.. dont' file.

This advice applies to all guitar repairs. If you don't know what you're doing and don't have the right equipment, take it to someone who does.

Shimming is kind of an art form. Yes, anyone can stick a piece of material in the neck pocket and screw the neck back on, but to do it properly takes some know-how, and there are several approaches to shimming depending on what's actually needed.

And I have seen people wreck their guitars with fancy shimming ideas that blew up in their faces.

[2funkyfinger]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

This advice applies to all guitar repairs. If you don't know what you're doing and don't have the right equipment, take it to someone who does.

Shimming is kind of an art form. Yes, anyone can stick a piece of material in the neck pocket and screw the neck back on, but to do it properly takes some know-how, and there are several approaches to shimming depending on what's actually needed.

And I have seen people wreck their guitars with fancy shimming ideas that blew up in their faces.

It's interesting that you mentioned about shimming being an art. So far I've only tried shimming with a name card. It'll be interested to know what a full shim does, or even sanding the neck to create a shim.