Shimming more if you already have a shim from factory.

[Langueta]

Is this common with bolt-on basses???my luthier added more shim to my sr5, the bass already came with a shim from the factory. Now it plays like butter, lowest action I`ve played in my life without fret buzzing even with my bass unplugged.
Thanks

[Langueta]

For those who are against shims now I know it shouldn`t be so bad. The luthier told me every Stingray bass he saw in his life came with a shim already installed from the factory.

[NicJimBass]

Originally Posted by Langueta

For those who are against shims now I know it shouldn`t be so bad. The luthier told me every Stingray bass he saw in his life came with a shim already installed from the factory.

I've owned 2 StingRay 5's and 2 Bongo 5's, and all of them had shims from the factory. Adding to them, if done right, and not excessively, should be fine, as far as I know. Hope this helps!

[bazzanderson]

I've shimmed EVERY bolt-on bass I've owned. That includes adding larger shims on basses that already had shims. To me it's just a basic part of a bolt-on set up. I've never noticed anything adverse effect to the tone and always have noticed lower action and a better playing neck.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Langueta

Is this common with bolt-on basses???my luthier added more shim to my sr5, the bass already came with a shim from the factory. Now it plays like butter, lowest action I`ve played in my life without fret buzzing even with my bass unplugged.
Thanks

You dealt with the REAL issue: Q - How does it play? A - Now it plays great.

Problem solved, question answered. What works, works. Doesn't matter if yours is the only bass in the world that requires this (it's not), the solution works.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

You dealt with the REAL issue: Q - How does it play? A - Now it plays great.

Problem solved, question answered. What works, works. Doesn't matter if yours is the only bass in the world that requires this (it's not), the solution works.

Succinct. Nothing more need be said.

[Hambone]

Now the only question that might remain is why would you need to add shims when the factory already put them in? Do they go bad? The short answer is yes...they literally "go bad" after years of pressure under the end of the neck. Either the shim material crushes or it embeds itself into the body wood. Either scenario has the same effect - it allows the heel of the neck to rotate down into the body and that naturally raises the action. The best way I've found to help counteract this is to make your shim the same width as the neck pocket and even contour it to fit the heel shape.

Hope this helps.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by Hambone

Now the only question that might remain is why would you need to add shims when the factory already put them in? Do they go bad? The short answer is yes...they literally "go bad" after years of pressure under the end of the neck. Either the shim material crushes or it embeds itself into the body wood. Either scenario has the same effect - it allows the heel of the neck to rotate down into the body and that naturally raises the action. The best way I've found to help counteract this is to make your shim the same width as the neck pocket and even contour it to fit the heel shape.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for kicking open a can of worms: Reasons to shim again.

Another reason is that sometimes the bolts are not torqued properly which allows the neck to shift.

[darkstorm]

No its not common with well made bolt on basses and guitars. The better made ones do the neck pocket correctly so no shim is needed imo. Out of every bolt on guitar and basss Ive bought. Only two have needed a shim, and just thin one at that.

[Langueta]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

No its not common with well made bolt on basses and guitars. The better made ones do the neck pocket correctly so no shim is needed imo. Out of every bolt on guitar and basss Ive bought. Only two have needed a shim, and just thin one at that.

Which were the good well made instruments you refered to???

[Langueta]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

No its not common with well made bolt on basses and guitars. The better made ones do the neck pocket correctly so no shim is needed imo. Out of every bolt on guitar and basss Ive bought. Only two have needed a shim, and just thin one at that.

Perhaps you refer to Boutique or handmade instruments. Production instruments are not made one at a time. Somebody grabs a neck from a bucket of necks, and bolts it to a body that he just pulled out of a bucket of bodies, etc...

And since they are both made of actual wood, adjustments might be required.

So, it's a friggin board with a neck bolted on and some pickups. Not rocket surgery.

Fender and Musicman shim most of their necks from factory. Fender encourage doing it from their website. However, Earnie Ball discourage this practice making them hipocript (in spite it is a Marketing issue). IMO they are the same as Fender, an exelent mass company. If you want detail go to a luthier who will make the bass better (setup) or order a Handmade bass.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I`ve read a lot about this topic these days.

[Langueta]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

No its not common with well made bolt on basses and guitars. The better made ones do the neck pocket correctly so no shim is needed imo. Out of every bolt on guitar and basss Ive bought. Only two have needed a shim, and just thin one at that.

I was expecting to see a Fodera, a Sadowsky or a Kent Smith in your list........

[Eminentbass]

Both Sandberg basses I've owned came with factory installed maple shims. They're hand built non-production line instruments to the best of my knowledge. I set my basses up with slight relief on the neck and the only adjustment I've made was a slight filing on the last two frets to stop the buzzing because that area is slightly raised due the shim. It stopped the buzzing and they've got the lowest action out of any other basses I've owned.

[j4kk1]

I don't understand why the shims are needed, when usually bridge's saddles can be adjusted to get the correct string height? Does it affect some other way to the action?

I had this one bass which had shim, but I tossed it away when I removed the neck. I just lowered the saddles a little, and IMO it was as good as before.

[Eminentbass]

Originally Posted by j4kk1

I don't understand why the shims are needed, when usually bridge's saddles can be adjusted to get the correct string height? Does it affect some other way to the action?

I had this one bass which had shim, but I tossed it away when I removed the neck. I just lowered the saddles a little, and IMO it was as good as before.

I've installed a shim on basses that I put badass bridges on because the bridge couldn't go low enough to get the desired action otherwise. A high mass bridge with a thicker base plate is the only reason I've seen necessary for a shim(both basses mentioned in my previous post came with high mass bridges).

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Eminentbass

I've installed a shim on basses that I put badass bridges on because the bridge couldn't go low enough to get the desired action otherwise. A high mass bridge with a thicker base plate is the only reason I've seen necessary for a shim(both basses mentioned in my previous post came with high mass bridges).

That's my understanding. A shim alters the relationship amongst 3 planes...neck, body, strings...and that's about it. A shim will not correct relief anomolies.

Riis

[JLS]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

No its not common with well made bolt on basses and guitars. The better made ones do the neck pocket correctly so no shim is needed imo. Out of every bolt on guitar and basss Ive bought. Only two have needed a shim, and just thin one at that.

I'm sorry, this is, and remains, baloney. I've been working on instruments for over 40 years, so excuse my cutting to the chase, here.

[darkstorm]

Langueta...> The various BC Richs, Jacksons, ESP Ltds, Schecters, & Ibanez, & Warwick basses Ive owned. Its a very simple thing, mfg simply has to cut the neck pocket corrrectly, so theres a slight tilt to neck like in set neck SG guitars without it haveing to be anywhere near as steep an angle as those use. The reason some mfg have constant shims is due to lousy imo neck pocket routing where they either make it too horrizontal to the body or worse yet, with the tilt in wrong direction.

Out of all the basses and guitars with bolt on neck, only two have needed a shim and just a thin one at that. One was esp ltd b50, the other was a bc rich import wave guitar. Ive owned over 2 dozen other bc rich basses and guitars, about 8 import jackson basses and guitars, various schecters, a couple ibanez's and few other brands. I routinely remove the necks soon after I buy a instrument to check for this and normally do a small mod to neck pocket to further increase neck to body vibration transfer. Ive done this mod to over 4 dozen guitars and basses owned by others and less then 20% have had shims. Of all the brands Ive removed necks on, fenders where the worse.

[darkstorm]

PS the exact reason I concider a required shim design a bad one is that its so simple to avoid that. One simply cuts the neck pocket floor so that as the neck sits firmly pressed into it, the neck slightly tilts rearward. Its the exact same design idea used in many set neck instruments and neck thru instruments. Here you cant shim the neck can you? Builders made sure theres was this small rearward tilt. Of course gibson got seriously carried away with this, but epiphones less severe tilt fixes that, and it doesnt even need to be as much as theirs. But anyway, its such a simple fix that makers of some $300-$500 instruments with bolkt on necks have been doing for more then ten years.

Ok, picture the floor of your neck pocket with its best for your basses shim. Now lay a flat peice of something against the rear wall of the pocket. Pressed firlmy against it and the floor. Notice how that if the neck pocket had been cut with that floor. No shim would be needed. Punch in the figures needed for your computer controlled body routing machine. There you go, all the bodies now get made with this better neck pocket floor which doesnt requre a shim.

[Hambone]

Darkstorm, the only problem with your sequence of events is that when neck pockets are cut in most production basses, they are made with flat bottom bits at the same time the front control cavity is cut but before the body is relieved from the mother blank. It's impossible to create a smooth floor in the neck pocket with a flat bottom bit unless you angle the blank the 1-2 degrees needed for proper alignment. But when you do that, you also angle the heel = opening it up by the same 1-2 degrees making a sloppy fit at the heel. Believe me, CNC routing is not the end-all-be-all for manufacturing. Go over to the MIMF forum and peruse the gyrations most builders go through to get an angled neck pocket in their bolt-ons. You'll soon see that this isn't simply a matter of "just doing it" in a production line scenario. Something else to consider is that perhaps the manufacturers you mentioned build this angle into the heels of their necks - a much easier thing to do - and there isn't a need for a shim if that's done.