shimming the neck question

[mcapote]

got a new loaded p body from a TBer today, grabbed a mighty mite p neck that I bought previously and went to throw it on. loaded up the strings, did a setup with the bridge as low as it goes and im still high(about 6mm off the bottom metal wire of the last fret and 3 off the first metal wire of the first fret not the wood the raised wires) to get a lower action will shimming work for this and if so do you recommend shimming the front of pocket back of pocket or whole pocket? and how much shimming should I use? bridge will be gotoh201 and strings are flats 45-105 if that matters.

[Gort]

In this exact situation I've often used a flat full-pocket shim of wood to raise the entire neck heel without messing with the neck/body geometry by introducing an angle with a partial or wedge shim.

Forgot to add...Check the nut it seems to be too high. Also is the trussrod adjusted properly?

[darkstorm]

6mm? Yikes, yes a whole neck pocket shim is needed if your gonna use that neck imo.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by mcapote

got a new loaded p body from a TBer today, grabbed a mighty mite p neck that I bought previously and went to throw it on. loaded up the strings, did a setup with the bridge as low as it goes and im still high(about 6mm off the bottom metal wire of the last fret and 3 off the first metal wire of the first fret not the wood the raised wires) to get a lower action will shimming work for this and if so do you recommend shimming the front of pocket back of pocket or whole pocket? and how much shimming should I use? bridge will be gotoh201 and strings are flats 45-105 if that matters.

Are you 3mm off the first fret? Your post is a little difficult to understand.

[mcapote]

Originally Posted by darkstorm

6mm? Yikes, yes a whole neck pocket shim is needed if your gonna use that neck imo.

is there another option? I mean is there a P or J neck that is thick in the pocket? I grabbed the mightymite thinking it was standard, but it looks like I get the same gap in 2 different p bodies

[mcapote]

Originally Posted by JLS

Are you 3mm off the first fret? Your post is a little difficult to understand.

yes 3mm off the first fret and 6mm off the last fret if the last fret was 3mm the 1st fret would be flush by the looks

[JLS]

Originally Posted by mcapote

yes 3mm off the first fret and 6mm off the last fret if the last fret was 3mm the 1st fret would be flush by the looks

It sounds as if, among other things, your nut is way too high. I'd suggest you post some photos, this isn't making sense, yet.

[lowendblues]

Originally Posted by JLS

It sounds as if, among other things, your nut is way too high. I'd suggest you post some photos, this isn't making sense, yet.

I agree with the above statement, is the neck straight as well?

[mcapote]

Originally Posted by JLS

It sounds as if, among other things, your nut is way too high. I'd suggest you post some photos, this isn't making sense, yet.

i'll try and get some pics up after work.

[mcapote]

Originally Posted by lowendblues

I agree with the above statement, is the neck straight as well?

I am questioning that myself because I tried to flatten it out a few days ago and it still a slight curve in the center but not much(less than a mm).


as for the nut i dont think the nut looks high(about the same as my spector which I can lay the strings on the frets if i want) I just think that it pulls away from the neck on fret 1 because of all the distance at fret 20 or whatever.

[lethargytartare]

Shim just the back of the pocket. I'd say you start by adjusting your saddles up to about the middle of their range of travel -- so when you get the shim where you want it, your saddles still have room for fine adjustments. Then start small -- I use small strips of 180 grit sandpaper. That thickness usually gives me enough of a pitch change. A little goes a long way.

Setup, measure, repeat as necessary.

Remember to make sure you're not cross-threading the neck mounting bolts when you re-tighten things up or you'll progressively strip those out

I don't worry about full pocket shims, but once you get a shim in there you like, you can measure it and go back and make a full pocket shim if you really want to -- just figure out the size you need first to save yourself some work.

Post your results -- good luck!

ltt

[mcapote]

pics were hard to get my camera is kinda sucking lately, need a new one, but i tried to get pics of the first and last fret to show you, and the bridge is set to the ground.

[GM60466]

YIKES. Try a full pocket shimm

[mcapote]

Originally Posted by GM60466

YIKES. Try a fell pocket shimm

whats a "fell" pocket shim? never heard that before

[John S]

1) Tighten up the truss rod so when you press a string down on the first and last fret, the gap in the middle (between the string and fret) is less than the thickness of a quarter. I use a left finger and right elbow to pull off that trick.

2) Take the neck off and trim a few business cards to fit in the heal of the pocket. When you put it all back together, your gap will be a lot smaller on the last fret.

If you lay the bass on it's back on a table and look at it from the side, the goal is to get the headstock closer to the floor. The pivot point is the area where the neck and body come together. To much neck relief will fight against your cause. The bow lifts the headstock up.

[mcapote]

Originally Posted by John S

1) Tighten up the truss rod so when you press a string down on the first and last fret, the gap in the middle (between the string and fret) is less than the thickness of a quarter. I use a left finger and right elbow to pull off that trick.

2) Take the neck off and trim a few business cards to fit in the heal of the pocket. When you put it all back together, your gap will be a lot smaller on the last fret.

If you lay the bass on it's back on a table and look at it from the side, the goal is to get the headstock closer to the floor. The pivot point is the area where the neck and body come together. To much neck relief will fight against your cause. The bow lifts the headstock up.

truss rod is set as flat as it will go which leaves a gap in the center fret of about a dime thickness with strings set to e tuning.

tried the full shim and heal shim and heal shim seems to work better so far I got the thickness of a notebook front cover in the heel and I think i might be able to go a tab bigger to get a a bit tighter, but with a full shim I need almost triple that for the same effect.

[lethargytartare]

So don't confuse the neck relief with the issue that neck pitch would address.

You can have awful action, but the neck relief set perfectly. And there's info in the stickies, but I'm not a fan of measuring relief based on fretting at the first and last frets -- that's not the standard way it's done, so comparing your results with other people won't be very helpful. You want to fret at 1 and something like 17, and measure the relief around 12. From that standpoint, a dime would be quite a bit too much of a gap.

Once the relief is good, you could shoot for this: with the saddles still bottomed out, increase the shim until the strings are hitting the frets. I like what I put in my earlier message, but this is another option.

And, yeah, lifting the whole heel would require more material than just a heel shim. But for some added confusion, most folks here mean a tapered shim when they talk about a "full pocket shim" which would give you the same pitch effect as a heel-only.

What gauge are those strings? edit: he listed the strings as 45-105s.

[Gort]

Get the nut and trussrod figured out first and see what happens before going to a shim.

[Gort]

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

But for some added confusion, most folks here mean a tapered shim when they talk about a "full pocket shim" which would give you the same pitch effect as a heel-only.

No confusion here, I specifically mentioned a flat full-pocket shim.

[lethargytartare]

Originally Posted by Gort

No confusion here, I specifically mentioned a flat full-pocket shim.

I was referring more broadly to how that term is used.