Should a fretless sound like crap when unplugged?

SevenPrime · #1 08-23-2010, 01:02 PM

I've been playing fretless now for about 10 months. It's also my first bass guitar, period, as I jumped unboard the low end without frets. But I've noticed one thing, no matter how I set the action, and no matter how I like the tone that comes out of the amplifier, the bass sounds like absolute crap in my hands. I have string buzz all over the place, especially around the 4th-6th frets. I picked up a friend's fretted bass the other day, and even though I missed the fretless control (and intonation), I must admit, it felt a whole lot cleaner in my hands, absolutely no buzzing.

I love that fretless "mwah" and I know that string buzzing contributes to that sound, but I have to say, it makes me feel weird when the instrument sounds so damn bad in my hands. When I'm practicing at low volumes, I can hear all that buzz too, and I'm sure others can too.

I dunno, part of me just thinks, "shut up and deal with it, it's part of playing fretless", but at the same time, I don't really talk with fretless players much, and I'm not sure it's really supposed to be this bad. What do you all think?

MNAirHead · #2 08-23-2010, 01:04 PM

would have to hear it to really give an opinion.

Fretless is one of the basses where quality shines through.

Much of it is in setup, touch, approach etc.

ElectraPhoenix · #3 08-23-2010, 01:07 PM

buzz on a fretless? how'd you manage that?

first question. is it a lined fretless? (like, little inserts/fillings/lines in the frets) or no lines, smooth board fretless.

second question. what strings are you using?

third... how experienced are you setting up instruments (i ask because you've only been playing bass for ten months, but maybe you play guitar too or something) just wondering; that's usually important to know.

if the neck is totally straight and the string height is where you want it, there shouldn't be any buzz. any way of posting some pics or something? that might help some of the other more experienced TB'ers (not me) or the luthiers around here help you out.

Crazyeelboy · #4 08-23-2010, 01:07 PM

SevenPrime: Yes, fretless basses are designed to sound like crap - just kidding.

I think your problem will work itself out with some practice.

ElectraPhoenix · #5 08-23-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyeelboy

SevenPrime: Yes, fretless basses are designed to sound like crap - just kidding.

I think your problem will work itself out with some practice.

well... as long as there's nothing wrong with the bass. if you're not fretting the strings totally, then it might buzz. but if the neck isn't radiused well, then you'll definitely have issues. it's a fretless; you should be able to set the neck straight and the strings real low with no issues.

SevenPrime · #6 08-23-2010, 01:14 PM

It's a Squier VM fretless jazz, with painted lines. Yes, I know that the lines cause a bit of buzz, but I actually don't mind them, in fact, if I'm using them correctly, I can roll my finger into them to create a nice extra "mwah". To be honest, I'm not sure what strings I'm using, I'm still using the stock strings. Only thing I know is that they're round wounds.

To clarify, when I say, "sounds like crap in my hands", I didn't mean that I play like **** (though I probably do compared to most), what I mean is that the actual acoustic sound I get is terrible, however the sound I get out of the amp is fine, since the pickups are at the other end of the instrument.

And I am fretting them fully. This doesn't change by how hard I press down the string.

And I'm a keyboardist by trade, this is my first time playing a string instrument, period. No prior experience in setup, except for lots of reading online. I have not radiused the fretboard though, in fact, I backed off on the neck tension yesterday.

Marco A. Mayer · #7 08-23-2010, 01:19 PM

Electric basses aren't supposed to sound good unplugged; it's the other way around. If it sounds good unplugged, good for you.

dvh · #8 08-23-2010, 01:37 PM

I think what he's saying is the acoustic sounds coming from his fretting hand sound like crap but the amplified sound does not include those.

Is that right sevenprime?

If so, don't worry about it.

SevenPrime · #9 08-23-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvh

I think what he's saying is the acoustic sounds coming from his fretting hand sound like crap but the amplified sound does not include those.

Is that right sevenprime?

Yup, that's what I'm saying. The sound coming out of the amp is more or less good (I'm always trying to get it better), but there's a whole lot of buzzing going on on along the finger board. I haven't played a whole lot of fretlesses, but the ones that I have played, I don't remember the buzzing being this pronounced.

dvh · #10 08-23-2010, 01:59 PM

What's the fingerboard material on those? Is that the culprit?

D.A.R.K. · #11 08-23-2010, 02:04 PM

i have the same bass, i love it, but it is a cheap production line bass and that is reflected in the playability.
mine is also a bit buzzy (not in a mwah way, in a noise way)
and the bottom line is the fingerboards on these are only as good as the price allows.
the fingerboard is coated, and it does add to the noise factor.

SevenPrime · #12 08-23-2010, 02:22 PM

Alright, I think the bottom line is, I should adjust my action to fit what the end sound is like, and not worry about how the fingerboard sound is.

My next question is, I've heard some people suggest modifying the piece where the strings come off the head so that you get a nice "mwah" even on open strings, how would one go about doing that?

hdracer · #13 08-23-2010, 02:29 PM

I played one like it at GC. It's the Ebanol fingerboard.

Fetusyolk · #14 08-23-2010, 02:30 PM

i think you probably 'should' worry about how the fingerboard sounds. i dont 'play' fretless, but i've played a few around. the VM that i played gave me no nasty fingerboard noise, have you had your technique looked at by any proficient players?

ThudThudThud · #15 08-23-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco A. Mayer

Electric basses aren't supposed to sound good unplugged; it's the other way around. If it sounds good unplugged, good for you.

I have to disagree here. If a bass doesn't sound good to me unplugged, no amount of electronics will make it resonate properly when plugged in. If I play a bass that feels/sounds right unplugged, I know it's going to sound great when plugged in. You can always change pickups/pots/preamps etc., but you can't always replace the resonance of the woods....

D.A.R.K. · #16 08-23-2010, 02:39 PM

the nut slots are cut quite high on these,
i had mine cut to a more reasonable depth that allows for a much nicer action.
low enough to have the string resonate, but only if plucked very hard.

Jaco D · #17 08-23-2010, 03:43 PM

Look-up in YouTube videos posted by Paapakobe (he has a dozen or so, but like four dedicated to the upgrades he did to his bass). He has the same bass as yours (and mine) and the way he plays (or "manhandles", depending on how you look at it) his bass with no amplification it sounds "clanky". However, it's a different story when it's played amplified. I guess part of it has something to do with playing skill, some part the way it is set-up, and some part the bass itself. If this is the same case as yours, then I think you're ok.

JLS · #18 08-23-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThudThudThud

I have to disagree here. If a bass doesn't sound good to me unplugged, no amount of electronics will make it resonate properly when plugged in. If I play a bass that feels/sounds right unplugged, I know it's going to sound great when plugged in. You can always change pickups/pots/preamps etc., but you can't always replace the resonance of the woods....

Can't agree more. If it's a dead instrument, nothing will make it live, only louder.

Marco A. Mayer · #19 08-23-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThudThudThud

I have to disagree here. If a bass doesn't sound good to me unplugged, no amount of electronics will make it resonate properly when plugged in. If I play a bass that feels/sounds right unplugged, I know it's going to sound great when plugged in. You can always change pickups/pots/preamps etc., but you can't always replace the resonance of the woods....

Well, my fretless jazz sounds bad unplugged but kicks monkey butts when amplified. Maybe I got a bad one?

SevenPrime · #20 08-23-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaco D

Look-up in YouTube videos posted by Paapakobe (he has a dozen or so, but like four dedicated to the upgrades he did to his bass). He has the same bass as yours (and mine) and the way he plays (or "manhandles", depending on how you look at it) his bass with no amplification it sounds "clanky". However, it's a different story when it's played amplified. I guess part of it has something to do with playing skill, some part the way it is set-up, and some part the bass itself. If this is the same case as yours, then I think you're ok.

I just watched the Paapakobe videos, and yes, mine sounds almost EXACTLY like that! You can deffinitely hear that ****** metalic/plastic slappiness. But then you tune your ear to what's coming out of the amp, and you realize you're listeing to a pretty nice bass sound. Weird. I might try changing the bridge though, I thought that modification made the biggest difference in sound quality.